Donation vs. Pay - Engraving Etc. Forum

<body> <h1>Full Version: <a href="https://www.engravingetc.org:443/archive/index.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.103">Donation vs. Pay</a></h1><a name="a1603_103"></a><p><b>From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.103">#103</a>]<br /> 20 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.102">#102</a>] 20 Jul 2005</p> <p>Chuck,</p> <p>I think the questions are good for the thought process. Your suggestion was a good one, and should be considered. (I assume it will be if I know the people that run this forum well enough). Don't mistake tough questions for criticism. I think we all want the same thing here....a great forum. Sometimes the self examination of why we do things and what we want to do to make them better can be painful. In the end, I see a better forum out of all of it.</p> <p>Brian G.</p><hr /><a name="a1603_104"></a><p><b>From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.104">#104</a>]<br /> 20 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.103">#103</a>] 20 Jul 2005</p> <p>Wow Brian. We totally agree on this one.</p> <p>Not a first but a little unusual.</p> <hr /><a name="a1603_105"></a><p><b>From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.105">#105</a>]<br /> 20 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.104">#104</a>] 20 Jul 2005</p> <p>I realise that I have been pushing the pedal hard on this one Harvey.....Even so....I think that we probably see eye to eye more often than not.</p> <p>I don't think anyone wants to go through a change like the software again without some previous question and answer/suggestion time. Including you <span class="e_smile" title=":)"><span class="e__">:)</span> </span></p> <p>Brian G.</p><hr /><a name="a1603_106"></a><p><b>From: Cindy (CINDYM)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.106">#106</a>]<br /> 20 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.2">#2</a>] 20 Jul 2005</p> <p>I can't believe I've missed this whole conversation until now, but once I started reading it, I could not stop. As I read, I jotted down some of the really good ideas others mentioned, and came up with a few of my own - so here goes:</p> <p>If the cost is to be $75 per year, I would consider that, for me, to be one of the better business investments I could make during the year. I would liken it to attending a constant trade show, where I could pop in and out of class, but look what I would save on hotel and airfare costs.</p> <p>One common thread on this forum is to charge what you are worth, and stop thinking that the word profit is a dirty word. If there is a charge for this forum + the added features, so what? If someone wants to make a business out of this, again, so what? How is that so bad? I just was catching up on reading some trade journals while engraving a bunch of switch plates, and read about Mike Davis and his Engravers Journal journey. How would this be so different? Do you think you should not pay for a subscription to the very valuable information gathered by Engravers Journal? I just don't see why someone shouldn't be allowed to make an on-line trade journal a business and why they should be raked over the coals for doing so.</p> <p>The idea of having to post for a few times before being permitted to access the pay site is intriguing. I think Laura might have mentioned this in regards to a photo site? Might be a thought to look at closer.</p> <p>10 day trial for newbies should give them all the insight they need to realize the value to their business growth. If they don't sign up then, they will remember the site and return when they think it is of value to them and they are ready to join.</p> <p>Having the pay site as a higher alternative off the free site, or having the free site as an alternative for those who don't want to pay for more is perfectly acceptable and part of the land of the free and free trade and all that. No one said there could not be both sites. Just as no one is making anyone pay. You don't have to pay, but don't begrudge others if some people want to pay to receive higher benefits. Again, free choice. It will be up to those who don't want to move to the pay site to keep the free site going and I think who ever takes it on will find it is a lot of work.</p> <p>Advertising - as long as the suppliers don't end up calling the shots, and there is a board of ethics to monitor who is allowed to advertise, this could be good. But why do we need the advertising dollars if members are paying to join?</p> <p>Enough for now. I don't like to pay for more than I have to, but this would really be just like subscribing to my trade journals and well worth it. </p> <p>Laura - at least subscribe to Engravers Journal if nothing else!</p> <p>Give me lots of notice, and perhaps even a personal e-mail before going to the pay format. As you can tell, I don't check in every day. Some days I don't get to my desk at all. So don't disappear without telling me! I value this site a lot. You have all helped me out many, many times, and saved me, or made me, lots of profit. I don't consider it taking time away from earning a living to spend time here catching up - I consider it an investment in my business and part of the cost of doing business.</p> <p>Now, let me get a little bit mushy here, which is so not my style - I know David L. is the main designer of this forum, and I want to say thank you David for the time you have put in to make this a really great site as it is. And thank you to David T. and Harvey for moderating (did I just forget another moderator? - if so, please accept my thanks too). It does take time to moderate and design and keep things going, and you don't do this for a free site for any other reason than to increase professionalism and knowledge in our industry. So please accept my gratitude for your time and efforts on all of our behalf.</p> <p>Cindy M</p><hr /><a name="a1603_107"></a><p><b>From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.107">#107</a>]<br /> 20 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Cindy (CINDYM)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.106">#106</a>] 20 Jul 2005</p> Cindy,<br /> You said <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">Now, let me get a little bit mushy here, which is so not my style - I know David L. is the main designer of this forum, and I want to say thank you David for the time you have put in to make this a really great site as it is. And thank you to David T. and Harvey for moderating (did I just forget another moderator? - if so, please accept my thanks too).</div><br /> <br /> What about ME? I mean after ALL I STARTED this thread....... don't I get any thanks??? I'm tellin ya, I get no respect. No respect at all.... <br /> <br /> ( insert laugh here ) <hr /><a name="a1603_108"></a><p><b>From: Cindy (CINDYM)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.108">#108</a>]<br /> 20 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.107">#107</a>] 20 Jul 2005</p> <p>sorry Chuck, I was just talking about the forum, not the thread. Although I must say, with your little posting there, you started quite the discussion, which was probably way overdue. Cleared a lot of the air I would say and got people talking about the different values of the forum. <br /> So thank you Chuck for bringing up the topic!<br /> Cindy M</p><hr /><a name="a1603_109"></a><p><b>From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.109">#109</a>]<br /> 20 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Cindy (CINDYM)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.108">#108</a>] 21 Jul 2005</p> <p>Cindy,</p> <p> It was just my sick twisted sarcastic wit showing it's ugly face again......</p> <p>I'll go back in the corner now.</p> <hr /><a name="a1603_110"></a><p><b>From: Ken D. (KDEVORY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.110">#110</a>]<br /> 20 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.109">#109</a>] 20 Jul 2005</p> You can't quit now. Just 25 more posts to be the longest thread. <span class="e_tongue" title=":P"><span class="e__">:P</span> </span> <hr /><a name="a1603_111"></a><p><b>From: UncleSteve</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.111">#111</a>]<br /> 20 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.109">#109</a>] 20 Jul 2005</p> Chuck, Do you want feathers with the tar? LOL <hr /><a name="a1603_112"></a><p><b>From: Dee (DEENA-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.112">#112</a>]<br /> 20 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Cindy (CINDYM)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.106">#106</a>] 21 Jul 2005</p> <p>Cindy,<br /> I wondered where you were on this topic. I too think of this site as an instant trade magazine with the added benefit of having many many consultants. This board has given me many valuable money making ideas, has instantly helped me when I had a problem, has allowed me to vent when necessary, has made me think out of MY box and on top of that we have met some really great people. I think this place is worth a great deal.</p> <p>Dee</p> <hr /><a name="a1603_113"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.113">#113</a>]<br /> 20 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Cindy (CINDYM)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.106">#106</a>] 21 Jul 2005</p> Cindy,<br /> <br /> I've read back through this thread, as well as Ken's <i>relationship</i> thread, and have come to the conclusion, a key reason for the forum's popularity, is its sense of family.<br /> <br /> All the components are here...bickering, laughing, crying and every emotion in between. <span class="e_smile" title=":-)"><span class="e__">:-)</span> </span><br /> <br /> Despite the appearance that Brian and I are eternally embroiled in verbal combat, we're actually friends...of sorts <span class="e_smile" title=":-)"><span class="e__">:-)</span> </span><br /> <br /> We met in-person a few years ago, we occasionally email each other off-forum and sometimes speak by phone.<br /> <br /> Brian's very much a fan of the forum and truly wants to see it reach its full potential.<br /> <br /> ...................................................................................................................<br /> <br /> Thank you for your thoughts and words of support.<br /> <br /> Oh, and I don't mind you getting a little mushy.<br /> <br /> I share your appreciation of Harvey Lentchner and David Takes. Dedicated and extremely helpful, beyond what meets the forum member's eyes.<br /> <br /> Speaking of what meets the eye, I can't forget to mention John Fish. John's knowledge of web development and Beehive software allowed us to upgrade to version v.5, much quicker than I thought possible.<br /> <br /> John will continue to work quietly and efficiently, behind the scenes, to bring to life, some of the new features we've mentioned.<br /> <br /> Finally, a heart-felt thank you to all who make the Engraving Etc. forum the internet's most active and informative meeting place for the A&E Industry.<br /> <br /> We appreciate it. <hr /><a name="a1603_114"></a><p><b>From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.114">#114</a>]<br /> 21 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.113">#113</a>] 21 Jul 2005</p> <p>I can't say I agree with you more David.</p> <p>Excellent post.</p> <p>Brian</p><hr /><a name="a1603_115"></a><p><b>From: Cindy (CINDYM)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.115">#115</a>]<br /> 21 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Dee (DEENA-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.112">#112</a>] 21 Jul 2005</p> <p>Dee, when I think of all the information I have received from reading posts or in discussions on this forum, and the camaraderie in an industry where it is difficult to have a discussion about what we do with the average person not in the industry (they just don't seem to get what we do), I have to place a high value on it. </p> <p>I'm sure I've gotten way more out of it than I've contributed. Like you said, a place to vent, encouragement to think outside our usual boxes, and meeting such great people. I had more fun this year in Las Vegas than in the past about 19 years I've attended the show there, all due to the people I have met through this forum, and the one on Yahoo!.</p> <p>Thanks again to Chuck:) for starting this thread. And here is my contribution towards the 25 or so posts you need to achieve the status of the longest thread!</p> <p>Cindy M</p><hr /><a name="a1603_116"></a><p><b>From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.116">#116</a>]<br /> 21 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: UncleSteve</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.111">#111</a>] 21 Jul 2005</p> <p>Steve,<br /> Thanks, but I'll have my tar straight up.........</p> <hr /><a name="a1603_117"></a><p><b>From: Cody (BOBTNAILER)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.117">#117</a>]<br /> 24 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> It would seem that I'm on the fence regarding a "pay" forum. There have been great arguments made each way.<br /> <br /> However, I haven't seen anyone seriously breach the option of the "donation" idea. That's the way that I <i>think</i> I'd like to see this go.<br /> <br /> I have gotten at least as much information out of this forum as anyone else here. Could I get info from somewhere else? Sure....but Jeanette Brewer would probably get VERY tired of hearing from me! <span class="e_sad" title=":-("><span class="e__">:-(</span> </span><br /> <br /> We are now making money doing things that we never would have thought about had we not been on the EE forum. My questions have far outnumbered my comments and suggestions. That doesn't even take into account the number of times that I've read someone else's question, and found that I've been doing something the wrong / hard way!<br /> <br /> If it went strictly pay, we might go away (depending on the cost, of course). <br /> <br /> However, we tend to be much more generous with our funds when we are given the OPTION to be.<br /> <br /> I have a good friend in the New York area that hosts a website that I benefit from (similar community). He told me (and others) about how much it was going to take to keep the site open for another year. When he asked some of us to donate, I was glad to help. Again, it's because I see a definite value.<br /> <br /> Bottom line: Someone has to pay to keep this forum running.<br /> <br /> Are YOU willing to pay SOMETHING (strictly voluntarily) to keep this forum running?<br /> <br /> This probably doesn't even qualify for the "2 cents" club, but it's all I've got. <span class="e_shades" title="B-)"><span class="e__">B-)</span> </span><hr /><a name="a1603_118"></a><p><b>From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.118">#118</a>]<br /> 25 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Cody (BOBTNAILER)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.117">#117</a>] 25 Jul 2005</p> <p>Cody, <br /> It was in fact myself that breached the subject of donation 118 posts ago. You can read for yourself the results.... I'll go back in my corner now....<br /> Oh, you two cents was more than two I think. <span class="e_smile" title=":-)"><span class="e__">:-)</span> </span></p> <hr /><a name="a1603_119"></a><p><b>From: Mick</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.119">#119</a>]<br /> 25 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.118">#118</a>] 25 Jul 2005</p> <p>This is not the Salvation Army, Catholic Outreach or United Way. It is a site that for even $75/yr would be a bargain if you:</p> <p>Read<br /> Heed<br /> Respond</p> <p>To my way of thinking, a "donation" is just that, donating and not receiving. We all receive fantastic amounts of information here that helps our bottom line, might be time to "annie up" and pay a reasonable amount for that information.</p> <p>Have you ever gotten a textbook free from a bookstore where if you learn something from it you should send a donation to the author to cover expenses ? Won't happen.</p> <hr /><a name="a1603_120"></a><p><b>From: UncleSteve</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.120">#120</a>]<br /> 25 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Mick</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.119">#119</a>] 26 Jul 2005</p> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">Have you ever gotten a textbook free from a bookstore where if you learn something from it you should send a donation to the author to cover expenses ? </div><br /> <br /> "Steal This Book" by Abbie Hoffman<br /> <br /> <br /> For those old enough to remember...... <span class="e_wink" title=";-)"><span class="e__">;-)</span> </span><p class="edit_text">EDITED: 25 Jul 2005 by UNCLESTEVE</p> <hr /><p>Message 1603.121 was deleted</p> <hr /><a name="a1603_122"></a><p><b>From: Da Big Fish (JOHNFISH)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.122">#122</a>]<br /> 25 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: UncleSteve</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.120">#120</a>] 25 Jul 2005</p> I remember when "Steal This Book" came out, I walked into a bookstore, asked if they had it, he said "Yes, but we have to keep it behind the counter." I asked for one, said thank you, and walked out with it. <hr /><p align="center">Show messages:  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.1">1-2</a>  …  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.43">43-62</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.63">63-82</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.83">83-102</a>  103-122</p> <h4><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=EE">Back to thread list</a> | <a href="llogout.php?webtag=EE">Login</a></h4> <h6>© 2025 <a href="http://www.beehiveforum.net/" target="_blank">Project Beehive Forum</a></h6> </body>