Donation vs. Pay - Engraving Etc. Forum

<body> <h1>Full Version: <a href="https://www.engravingetc.org:443/archive/index.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.78">Donation vs. Pay</a></h1><a name="a1603_78"></a><p><b>From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.78">#78</a>]<br /> 18 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Pete (AWARDMASTERS)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.76">#76</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> <p>Pete,<br /> Things are different in Chuckland. No, they do not tax 100% even though purportedly we are one of the highest taxed states in the nation ( depends on how you look at it. I think Wa. is MUCH worse). <br /> However, in Chuckland it is easier on my mind to think of a tax deductible expense as free.</p> <hr /><a name="a1603_79"></a><p><b>From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.79">#79</a>]<br /> 18 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Dee (DEENA-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.77">#77</a>] 18 Jul 2005</p> Dee you asked<br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote"><br /> Off topic but do they have good bagel stores in your neck of the woods and I don't mean Lenders.</div><br /> <br /> Sadly no. There are a "few" bakeries around and Rick Dees tried to open on once, called, get this, "The Bagel Shop" but the best we are able to do is Safeway or Costalot...er I mean Costco.....<p class="edit_text">EDITED: 18 Jul 2005 by C_BURKE</p> <hr /><a name="a1603_80"></a><p><b>From: Dee (DEENA-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.80">#80</a>]<br /> 18 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.79">#79</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> You did say you wanted to expand your business right? <hr /><a name="a1603_81"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.81">#81</a>]<br /> 18 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Shaddy</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.68">#68</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> Shaddy,<br /> <br /> The free membership idea was tossed around. Obviously, we don't want to lose our MVPs, which I doubt we will anyway.<br /> <br /> In the discussions, my position was, showing favoritism may become a slippery slope. We have many MVPs, though, some are more prolific than others.<br /> <br /> In compiling a list of those members who would be offered a free membership, invariably, someone will be overlooked, or possibly feel slighted by not being on the list.<br /> <br /> I'm all for paying contributing writers with membership and/or monetary compensation, which is one of the reasons for becoming subscription-based.<br /> <br /> As much as some see the pay concept as a means for myself and my fellow moderators to "get rich" - to use Harvey's term, "plowing" money back into the effort, is in our best interest. <hr /><a name="a1603_82"></a><p><b>From: UncleSteve</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.82">#82</a>]<br /> 18 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.78">#78</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> <p>Chuck, Based on some of the news here last night, not only are they considering taxing 100% but they also want to take your house and land away and give it back to the native Hawaiians.....</p> <p><br /> Edited to add: In your case, Kona coffee may be used for payment.... exchange rate to be determined....</p><p class="edit_text">EDITED: 18 Jul 2005 by UNCLESTEVE</p> <hr /><a name="a1603_83"></a><p><b>From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.83">#83</a>]<br /> 19 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.81">#81</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> <p>I guess the thing that Im not seeing clearly is the goal of this change. We don't know what you are intending to do by changing to pay....Without stated goals, it's hard to get behind any idea. What is your goal/motivation to go pay? Is it to improve the forum?........because most are real happy with the status quo. Is it for compensation? If so, the $75 per seat seems pretty high based on cost of running a server/software alone. It would be easier to get behind someone that had a vision of what they wanted laid out somewhat, not an ambiguous..."Hey, wait until this joint goes pay...It's gonna be great" attitude without any meat to chew on.</p> <p>What do you think the membership of this forum is lacking in their experience here? Do you feel like people are just getting a free ride and should have to pay to exchange "their" ideas? You have provided the Media to exchange the ideas, but if you go pay, you will have some that shift back to the "other" free delphi forum. That forum has the same flavor and ease of use as this one. Granted you have to deal with pop-ups, but many will find that worth while as opposed to pay $75 annualy to share "their" ideas.</p> <p>Unless you feel that "your" ideas are what draws the membership to this forum, I feel like you should spell out a reason for the change. Something that people can get behind and be interested in. I think you need to show people a "vision" of value added services that can't be found elsewhere....if you wish to succeed.</p><p class="edit_text">EDITED: 19 Jul 2005 by RALLYGUY1</p> <hr /><a name="a1603_84"></a><p><b>From: Sei (SEIMA)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.84">#84</a>]<br /> 19 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.31">#31</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> <p>I haven't finished reading the entire thread, but I will pause to post a thought. Unlike the majority of the people here, I am not an owner. I manage the awards, engraving, and sublimation department for a larger sign company.</p> <p>Therefore I cannot personally authorize the cost of membership, I would need to get it approved. The people I work for are notoriously cheap, so it's about 70/30 I could get them to go for it with the weight toward a big fat, "No." Or rather, "We don't feel that's a justifiable investment at this time." </p> <p>Consequently in order to maintain a membership it would need to come direct from my pocket. I ended up buying my own personal membership to Dephi when we were over there. $75.00 a year isn't much as a business expense, but as a personal cost for an underpaid employee like me, it's up there. </p> <p>So we'll see how convincing I can be when the time comes, but if when we go pay I drop off the face of the earth, you'll know why.</p> <p>Sei</p><hr /><a name="a1603_85"></a><p><b>From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.85">#85</a>]<br /> 19 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.83">#83</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> <p>Brian,<br /> This is what I have been asking for also. If you look back a few posts you will find one from David Takes that outlines a broad "vision" of possibilities.... when/if this goes pay.<br /> Should half of those ideas become a reality, it would be worth the money, but only if content does not become stagnant, which I don't think it will.<br /> One thing I am convinced of is the "intent" of David L. His desire is to improve the over all industry, through networking, education and association. Will it all pan out? Hell, I don't know, but as Anthony Robbins says..... try it. If it doesn't work, try something different, if THAT doesn't work try something different..unti you find what DOES work.....<br /> For example, changing servers and software. Good idea, didn't work. Here we are back. Starting an "ethics" committee. Good idea. Didn't work. Going pay? Good idea? I don't know. Will it work? won't know until we try. If it fails will we come back to this? More than likely.</p> <p>Just my two cents. Want change?</p> <hr /><a name="a1603_86"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.86">#86</a>]<br /> 19 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Sei (SEIMA)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.84">#84</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> Sei,<br /> <br /> You're certainly one of those who could <i>write</i> their way into a membership. <hr /><a name="a1603_87"></a><p><b>From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.87">#87</a>]<br /> 19 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.86">#86</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> <p>I guess I wonder if what you are suggesting is a good idea......Some people that find it difficult to pay for on a personal level will be able to write an article to get access? Will this option apply equaly, or will each article have a different value. What if you are inundated with articles...will you refuse some, or will each and every article earn access? </p> <p>your statement makes it feel more like a club, with the internship of writing an article (wink wink, nudge nudge). Some will be able to get in that way....some won't. Right now no one is getting any value for their contributions on the forum.......Is that any different from an article contribution? Look at some of the posts by Rodney Gold......Many of his posts could easly be articles....does he get a free pass then? Does every member that posted helpful information in any length get a free pass? I can think of a dozen people that should be on that list, perhaps even more. Writing for membership could be a slippery slope....</p> <p>What say you?</p><hr /><a name="a1603_88"></a><p><b>From: Sei (SEIMA)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.88">#88</a>]<br /> 19 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.86">#86</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> <p>Thanks, David. It's good of you to say that. It is something I had considered. I just worry, with only three years of experience under my belt and zero training/seminars/ or classes, how much I have to say.</p> <p>But, then, when you get right down to it, I guess I have something for everyone with two years or less under their belt. <span class="e_wink" title=";)"><span class="e__">;)</span> </span></p> <p>Sei</p><hr /><a name="a1603_89"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.89">#89</a>]<br /> 19 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.83">#83</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> Brian,<br /> <br /> So far, nobody has been able to put their finger on the reason(s) this forum, among the other industry-related <i>free</i> forums, is the most active.<br /> <br /> Will becoming a pay site mark the end of that popularity? I don't think so.<br /> <br /> It's interesting, that, for the mostpart, the people I consider our MVPs aren't involved in this thread. They're busy going about what they enjoy, which is offering their time-honored experience to those who can benefit.<br /> <br /> Will becoming a pay site mark the end of their generous sharing of information? Extremely doubtful.<br /> <br /> I'm not certain why you hold our former home (Delphi) up as some sort of threat. In light of our impending change, wouldn't you think people would already be rallying around the concept of mounting a challenge to the <i>evil, money-grubbing</i> Engraving Etc. forum?<br /> <br /> I haven't visited the Delphi forum for weeks. I just checked, and guess how many new posts have been generated in that time? Zero!<br /> <br /> Bottom line: I'm not saying, "Wait until this joint goes pay, it'll be great!" I'm saying it's great now and many feel it's worth paying for - as is.<br /> <br /> Those who will leave, will leave. Those who will stay, will stay.<br /> <br /> Naturally, we'll continue to put our effort into the tradition of educating and informing those who remain and those who follow. <hr /><a name="a1603_90"></a><p><b>From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.90">#90</a>]<br /> 19 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.87">#87</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> <p>You certainly like playing the antagonist, don't you?</p> <p>You are a far greater pot stirrer than even David. <span class="e_tongue" title=":P"><span class="e__">:P</span> </span></p> <p>Or are you just overly cheap? <span class="e_tongue" title=":P"><span class="e__">:P</span> </span> <span class="e_shock" title=":O"><span class="e__">:O</span> </span> <span class="e_smile" title=":-)"><span class="e__">:-)</span> </span></p> <p>[See you do not have the patent on pot stirring.] <span class="e_devil" title="(devil)"><span class="e__">(devil)</span> </span></p> <hr /><a name="a1603_91"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.91">#91</a>]<br /> 19 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.87">#87</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> Brian,<br /> <br /> I can't think of much to add much to the post I just made to you, other than articles would be accepted on their merit. <hr /><a name="a1603_92"></a><p><b>From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.92">#92</a>]<br /> 19 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.89">#89</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> <font color="#0000FF">"I'm not certain why you hold our former home (Delphi) up as some sort of threat."</font><br /> <br /> I don't hold it up as a threat at all....Just as an option for those that choose not to pay. The real threat to the forum is making bad choices. Why be indifferent to those that appreciate the status quo?....What makes your vision of changes merit payment? <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <font color="#0000FF">"Those who will leave, will leave. Those who will stay, will stay.<br /> <br /> Naturally, we'll continue to put our effort into the tradition of educating and informing those who remain and those who follow."<br /> </font><br /> <br /> This statement has none of the "meat, or vision" I was expecting to see from you.<br /> <br /> What exactly will paying get the members that they don't have now...?<br /> <br /> Otherwise all you are saying is that ..."gee we are going to make you pay for what has been free for ages."<br /> <br /> All the great stuff here is driven by the membership that participates, not necessarily what you or the other mods personally have to offer (although I find what they have to offer very helpful). Up to this point, you have offered the medium of a forum, and nothing more. That medium still exists without any fees over at Delphi (don't look at it as a threat...it's just the reality of the situation)...If you offer nothing more than the status quo with a fee, I question if it will succeed for an extended period of time.<br /> <br /> No one really knows I guess....It should be quite an experiment.<hr /><a name="a1603_93"></a><p><b>From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.93">#93</a>]<br /> 19 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.90">#90</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> I don't care if the forum goes pay or not, just that it succeeds and doesn't lose what it has.<br /> <br /> <br /> I thought this was the forum suggestions/questions thread. Am I posting to the wrong place?<br /> <br /> My questions have nothing to do with what I would spend here or how I value the forum (which I happen to do or I wouldn't bother with an opinion). I spend money on plenty of worthwhile things like this forum. It's not about the money...its about the membership. Losing them loses what makes the forum worth while.....don't you guys get it??? Its like the last "experiment" you all thought switching forum software would be awesome.....guess what...it sucked. Membership thought it sucked, and 90 percent of them weren't bothering. This time do it right...if your gonna go pay....think it through. Get information, answer questions....and get it right!...don't just decide and force it on everyone, or we will all be back where we started in a month or two from now wondering what went wrong and why the change was made.<br /> <br /> I was very involved in this same situation over on DSSI, and we went through the gammut on the same subjects prior to any action.....so for me it's kind of a "been there, done that" kind of situation. I felt that some of the tough questions that went on over there would be worthy of asking here.<br /> <br /> Personaly I think the wink wink nudge nudge method of trading for membership would come off as unfair. Paying a set value for an article would be more fair, and could <b>justify</b> membership fee's (as a cost of information) in general.<br /> <br /> Regarding the patent on pot stiring...David had that patented far before I ever started posting...I spose I owe him some money for that then eh? <span class="e_smile" title=":)"><span class="e__">:)</span> </span><p class="edit_text">EDITED: 19 Jul 2005 by RALLYGUY1</p> <hr /><a name="a1603_94"></a><p><b>From: UCONN Dave &amp; Lynn too (DANDL48)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.94">#94</a>]<br /> 19 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.89">#89</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> David,<br /> <br /> You said in part,"<br /> <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">Bottom line: I'm not saying, "Wait until this joint goes pay, it'll be great!" I'm saying it's great now and many feel it's worth paying for - as is.</div><br /> <br /> Couldn't agree more.<br /> <br /> For those of you who are for the status quo, who do you think has been paying for all the programming that went into this forum and is still going on? It's David.<br /> <br /> Just my $.02<br /> <br /> Dave <hr /><a name="a1603_95"></a><p><b>From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.95">#95</a>]<br /> 19 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.90">#90</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> <p>BTW Harvey, </p> <p>I donated $200 dollars worth of product or services to the logo contest because I value this forum.</p> <p>Cheap I am not.</p><hr /><a name="a1603_96"></a><p><b>From: Shaddy</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.96">#96</a>]<br /> 19 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: UCONN Dave &amp; Lynn too (DANDL48)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.94">#94</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> I'm a little confused on what "programming" you're refering to. <a href="http://beehiveforum.sourceforge.net/">Beehive</a> forums are open source and free for anyone to download. I'm running a <a href="http://1987.shaddysengraving.com/forum2/forum/">class reunion</a> website and tried it out myself (only started a week ago, but I have a year and a half to complete it). Yes, there's aways tweaking when you make it your own, colors, images..., but I haven't seen too much different so far from the free one I've downloaded and played with. <br /> <br /> I'm certainly not suggesting he's doing nothing, I'm just asking for clarification on what you meant. It sounds like you're implying they've done this from scratch.<br /> <br /> Shaddy<hr /><a name="a1603_97"></a><p><b>From: UCONN Dave &amp; Lynn too (DANDL48)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.97">#97</a>]<br /> 19 Jul 2005<br /><b>To: Shaddy</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.96">#96</a>] 19 Jul 2005</p> <p>Where do I say or imply that they are building it from scratch?</p> <p>I will let the others, David L, David T, or Harvey answer the specifics changes that have been made. I know that David L is a total novice when it comes to code and that is one of the reasons for the need for a programmer/designer.</p> <p>Dave</p> <hr /><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="EE" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="1603.98" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="submit1" class="button" value="Keep reading…" /></form><p align="center">Show messages:  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.1">1-17</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.18">18-37</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.38">38-57</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.58">58-77</a>  78-97  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.98">98-117</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1603.118">118-122</a></p> <h4><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=EE">Back to thread list</a> | <a href="llogout.php?webtag=EE">Login</a></h4> <h6>© 2025 <a href="http://www.beehiveforum.net/" target="_blank">Project Beehive Forum</a></h6> </body>