From: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#197]
9 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#196] 9 May 2006
"Knowing" you and Dave, I can believe that to a large extent Harvey.
From: UncleSteve [#198]
9 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#197] 9 May 2006
What I am having a problem understanding is that the same people that are screaming about $99 for a year of 911/411 from experienced product sources, equipment vendors and support people and those that run different day to day engraving and multi discipline don't question going for one day of training for $2-300 in a class setting with a pre-determined curriculum that won't be there the other 364 days if a problem or emergency comes up that needs virtually immediate attention.
From: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#199]
9 May 2006
To: UncleSteve [#198] 9 May 2006
hands on with an instructor and online advice are two entirely different things I would imagine.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#200]
9 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#199] 9 May 2006
Mike,
There are ways to provide hands-on instruction, while people are online.
From: Upacreek [#201]
9 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#190] 9 May 2006
quote:
I suspect more people are opposed to a pay site, based on principle, rather than outrage at the proposed subscription.
I suspect it's the fact that all we have been told the fee will be $99/year and after we pay it, we will eventually find out what we will receive for that expense.
We've all invested a lot of time and research into our businesses and equipment. Look at the number of questions people post when trying to make a decision about their next equipment purchase and if the expense is worth it.
To expect us to pay for something that has no facts and data to indicate what we are receiving for this price, is only asking for resistance.
quote:
I suspect the reaction would have been just as acrid, at any price.
I think you would have had a much more positive reaction if you had stated exactly what the member would have received for that price.
Before you decided not to become an ARA member, you researched the membership benefits, right?
That's all we're asking. What exactly are the benefits of paying $99/year for a membership?
Michel
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#202]
9 May 2006
To: Upacreek [#201] 10 May 2006
Michel,
If you followed the "My Apologies" thread, I admitted to making my announcement prematurely and apologized for the resulting turmoil.
I was hoping to place a web page, detailing the benefits of joing the pay site, along with the EBS offer, sometime this week.
I'm swamped with work and efforts to create the page, may take longer.
As to your ARA question; a list of benefits, no matter how long or juicy, played no role, in my decision not to join ARA. My decision was based on a single principle, which I've already mentioned.
Some would say that's throwing the baby out with the bath water and in some ways that's true.
I call it standing by a principle and I'm suggesting that's exactly what we'll see from some people in this situation.
EDITED: 9 May 2006 by DGL
From: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#203]
9 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#200] 9 May 2006
quote:
There are ways to provide hands-on instruction, while people are online.
I guess you're right Dave. I could instruct digital photographers off a live web site.
btw, who is your third partner?
.EDITED: 9 May 2006 by BIGPIXEL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#204]
9 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#203] 9 May 2006
Mike,
You're the type of person we're willing to pay for that type of web instruction.
The way it was explained to me, is all the people involved, call into a conference call center and are given a password (very much like we did for our first TeleSeminar).
While on the phone, in front of their computers, people ask questions and are given live instruction, showing how to accomplish a given procedure.
It's kind of like a Camtasia Studio Flash Tutorial, except live.
Third partner?
EDITED: 9 May 2006 by DGL
From: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#205]
9 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#204] 10 May 2006
I could do that.
I thought Harvey mentioned three of you as being moderators/partners. No?
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#206]
10 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#202] 10 May 2006
Hi David,
I know this is a totaly different subject....but........
I understand why you have decided to not join the ARA. Since you have brought the ARA thing up a couple of times now.....I have been curious...........How do you seperate attending shows from joining the ARA? To me, both are supportive of the association. I understand why you go to the shows, and why you like to go, I just don't understand how you can justify the one but not the other. To me they seem to be the same entity that gets the benefit (payment) for your participation.
What makes the action of joining different from the action of participation for you in this situation?
I have always wondered how and why you view them so differently.
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#207]
10 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#205] 10 May 2006
quote:
I thought Harvey mentioned three of you as being moderators/partners. No?
This should answer your question:
http://www.engravingetc.org/forum/index.php?webtag=EE&msg=3769.1
From: Barbara (RGILE) [#208]
10 May 2006
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#88] Unread
Rodney,
I am a taker of information I will admit that. I am new to the business and have only been engraving for not quite two years. But, I have also been able to help others as well. I love doing it, because I am so grateful when I receive the help. It makes me feel good to know that I have given back to someone.
That said, I realize that we give our information freely, and it was wonderful. But nothing is free anymore, and we received a lot in the time that this forum has begun. I do not mind paying money to enhance my business and to make friends in the business along the way.
You have defiantly been a huge contribution to this forum with your knowledge that you have freely given. But no-one knows it all, and maybe someone will help you along the way, with an idea, or just plain encouragement. At any rate, it's your choice weather to continue with this or not. You have obviously been offended and when you take away the information that you have provided as an expert, it will be missed by everyone.
You have made the comment that the newbies will not be able to join. But David has offered them a month free, and that should show them the quality of something like this. He is also offering a free membership for those who do not have the means to join.
Rodney, this is hard for everyone, but we will miss you if you decide against it. Stay with it, I bet you will be happy that you did, and if you are not, no one will make you stay. Try it for the first month and see.
Barbara
From: Funkmeister (FUNKY) [#209]
10 May 2006
To: ALL
Hey folks!!! Whatever you decide to do here inform me. The cost of this site is well worth any amount of $$$. Count me in on whatever is decided. I blow that amount of $$$ in a weekend on my bad habits.(no not women). And one more thing that's important to say. I really think the three of you need to be involved in this site. So David I think you need to put your pretty face back on this site. Let's move forward instead of backwards.
I don't know how anyone else feels, but this is my 2 cents worth.
I think we all know how valuable this site is to us all. Whatever is decided count me in. I need all the help I can get, and all of you folks
that visit and use this site should give yourself a pat on the back.
Remember one thing as I always say. "ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE."
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#210]
10 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#203] 10 May 2006
Mike,
quote:
btw, who is your third partner?
Please refer to this LINK for an update to your question.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#211]
10 May 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#206] 10 May 2006
Brian,
I believe in supporting ARA, when I use their service of providing our industry's most prominent trade show, which is ARA Las Vegas.
$50 dollars is not too high a price to pay for that service. It's one of their products I feel is worth the cost.
Industry trade shows, across the board, are shrinking; in large part, due to the exhorbitant costs of exhibiting, coupled with the increasing costs of attending.
With that dynamic in place, it's not in ARA's best financial interest to decrease the size of its membership, in the least.
Through the EE forum, we've seen examples of serious ethics violations, committed by (ARA member) industry suppliers and retailers alike.
I don't blame ARA for not wanting to become involved in policing its members, although as an entity committed to representing the entire A&E industry, I feel it's their duty, in cases of irrefutable ethical misconduct, to at least have a mechanism in place to listen to their constituents, and if necessary, take action to remove chronic offenders from their roster.
By not having such a mechanism in place, (in my opinion), it seems ARA is more interested in protecting its source of income, than the integrity of the industry.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#212]
10 May 2006
To: Barbara (RGILE) [#208] 10 May 2006
quote:
But David has offered them a month free, and that should show them the quality of something like this. He is also offering a free membership for those who do not have the means to join.
Barbara,
I don't remember saying that, but we are considering a 30-day free trial, once we become subscription-based, for those who don't take advantage of the advance registration offer. If we go that route, advance registrees will have an extra month added to their subscription.
Those who join, through advance registration, will receive "Charter Member" status, for which they'll occasionally receive special offers and perks. Attending the annual "Beach Party" as my guests, will be one of the perks.EDITED: 10 May 2006 by DGL
From: Barbara (RGILE) [#213]
10 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#212] 10 May 2006
Sorry David,
I thought I saw that one.
Anyway, this is getting tiring, I am going to take a little break from it. Hopefully there will be some good stuff to read besides this.
You know how I feel about this, and that is important to me.
Barb :D
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#214]
10 May 2006
To: Barbara (RGILE) [#213] 11 May 2006
Barbara,
There was a lot said, in the heat of trying to alay concerns and appease all sides. I can't go back, to read all my posts, and those of others, to confirm or deny what was said.
Like you, I'm a little worn down by this thread, which, by the way, is virtually the last thread I read, when coming to the forum.
I'm committed to keeping my focus on the educational topics.
From: Barbara (RGILE) [#215]
11 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#214] 11 May 2006
Thanks, I am sure that will be appreciated by everyone. Time to move on with the people that will stay with the pay site. There are many free ones also, and I also frquent them. I just love this one the best.
Good Luck, I wish you well
Barbara
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#216]
11 May 2006
To: Barbara (RGILE) [#215] 12 May 2006
Barbara,
I can't blame people for their outrage. I showed my hand, without showing my hand.
Once I follow up with the features and benefits, I'll probably be accused of giving too much away, for too little.
As long as I'm being accused of something, I'm happy. :-)
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