Full Version: Getting Out/Into Sublimation
From: Rose (RSLIEPKA) [#15]
15 Apr 2005
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#14] 15 Apr 2005
Has anyone used Aluma Jet? Just wondering. I guess once I clean my 3000 I could switch to regular ink and give that a shot.
Someone in an earlier post said something about a learning curve. You can't count on consistency is the big thing. I have no problem doing the homework and putting lots of work into it. And believe me I did! The problem I have is becoming a tester for the manufactures. When the Sawgrass black ink turned green, we the users had to call them after a lot of waste. When the white aluminum didn't press well we were told we were pressing too hard or too long but then all of a sudden a newer, better white aluminum came out. The C-80's didn't work out and yes, Tropical has always been really nice but I fought with that machine for months. I went through bunches or paper and hours and hours of aggrivation that I can't even describe. (You know what I mean, 10pm and you still can't get it to work, you go in the next morning still can't get it to work. You call up and they tell you they will send you another new part. Another day wasted. You get that part and the cycle starts again.) I could never be compensated for that!
I am sure that those of you that got out of it are very relieved that you aren't fighting anymore.
From: Noel (NOELF) [#16]
15 Apr 2005
To: Rose (RSLIEPKA) [#15] 15 Apr 2005
Sublimation is definitely one of those "x-factor" type processes. Some people have major issues, some have minor issues.
At one point I was pressing a TON of shirts and mousepads. 1280 printer, with Rotech inks, we rarely had an issue on clogs. If I did have a bad print, it was normally the black that caused it (black seemed thicker than other inks).
After a lot of time and experimentation, we found that more than 70% of all the problems we were having was because of incomplete information within the industry. I was never so amazed, as when I changed from high to low release paper on hard goods. And all that time I thought I was the problem.
So I agree, sublimation has some issues. But it is an amazingly young industry for the most part. And as with so many rapidly changing industries there are issues.
I'm definitely not saying that sublimation is for everyone. But I can say, that I have managed some fairly amazing prints using it :)
- Noel
From: Rose (RSLIEPKA) [#17]
15 Apr 2005
To: Noel (NOELF) [#16] 15 Apr 2005
From: More Than Gifts (MTG) [#18]
16 Apr 2005
To: ALL
Hello,
I have been doing sublimation for almost 4 years now. Sure there have been some clogging issues, but nothing major. I have two 3000's, and once every couple of weeks, I soak and agitate the docking cups with Windex, and let the nozzles soak in the Windex overnight. The next morning, I use a Windex wip to clean the bottom of the print heads. Also, once every couple of months, I take the cover off the printers and completly give the printer a cleaning. I believe this periodic maintenance has been crucial to avoiding problems. With the paper and general dust, it is amazing how much gunk can build up inside the printers.
If you buy a car, and just drive it without changing oil, or doing preventative maintenance, how long would it last?
I do agree with Noel that there is not enough information given to new subbers when they purchase their systems, but the information is out there at this time, if you scour the internet. It certainly is not a "hook it all up and everything will be dandy" system. There is a lot to learn and be aware of, but when you get it down, it is really amazing what can be done.
Kevin
From: gt350ed [#19]
16 Apr 2005
To: ALL
As is reflected in our "signature" below, we started in the sublimation business about 5 years ago as a home-based internet only side business while we kept our day jobs. During this time, we have done literally thousands of mugs and steins shipped all over the United States and elsewhere. We have always made a good profit from this portion of our business.
Almost 2 years ago, I quit my day job and opened our trophy, awards and personalized gifts retail store. Dye sublimation came right along with us and has allowed us to incorporate full color into many of our products creating a heightened perceived value in most cases. Dye sublimation has also given us an advantage over other similar businesses because many do not do it or have tried and could not get it right. I cannot tell you how many products I've seen that were done by others that were blurry or just bad.
On the otherhand, our results are very, very good and we routinely receive compliments for accuracy of color and crispness of images and text. In addition to ceramic mugs and steins, we primarily imprint on Unisub white coated aluminum, Unisub FRP and hardboards. We've tried other manufacturers but we believe Unisub to be superior for what we do. And what we do includes name badges, clipboards, bag tags, license frames, interior signage, full color plaque plates and event or organization logo plates incorporated into trophies.
Have we had growing pains along the way? Sure. Has there been a learning curve? You bet. But everything can be overcome. Like someone said earlier, it's an "art"; or at least an acquired skill. But we have always made money and there have been many jobs we would not have gotten had it not been for our expertise in incorporating the dye-sub process into a project or product.
We use an Epson 1280, Rotech inks (now converting to Artainium) and Accuplot paper.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#20]
17 Apr 2005
To: ALL
Because the ink jet dye sublimation process is an acquired skill, and one that requires a knack, I've probably scared more people away from entering the industry than I've encouraged.
Here's an example used in an ARA seminar.
Causes for a weak or blurry image:
1) Printing to wrong side of transfer paper.
2) Using garden variety (absorbent) copy paper.
3) Too much dwell time (depending on substrate).
4) Too much heat.
5) Inferior coating on substrate.
There may be more, though, a weak/blurry image can be caused by one, or a combination of variables.
Here's the good news!
Once you climb the mountain, after making every mistake imaginable; losing valuable time, money and hair, you may find that ink jet dye sublimation is the most versatile, lucrative process you perform. :-)
EDITED: 17 Apr 2005 by DGL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#21]
17 Apr 2005
To: Myyk [#9] 17 Apr 2005
If you're not involved in high production work, and don't require a bulk ink system, (which can come with issues of their own), the Epson 900/980 printers are excellent candidates for what I call, "Booster Shot Bulk" which is a method of refilling cartridges, without removing them from the printer.
The procedure is detailed at www.sublimationink.net under the "Epson Cartridge Refill Instructions" link.
Inks have improved, and for indoor use, such as award plaques, provide a very durable image. In fact, I can't remember the last time I engraved (diamond-drag, rotary) a plaque.
From: Rose (RSLIEPKA) [#22]
18 Apr 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#21] 18 Apr 2005
"Once you climb the mountain, after making every mistake imaginable; losing valuable time, money and hair, you may find that ink jet dye sublimation is the most versatile, lucrative process you perform. :-)"
And you might also find out it is just not for you.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#23]
18 Apr 2005
To: Rose (RSLIEPKA) [#22] 18 Apr 2005
Rose,
You're absolutely right. I feel as long as people know, going in, that ink jet sublimation can be a mine field, they're better prepared to deal with the frustration.
In some cases, I don't think the reality is sufficiently explained to people "before" they make their equipment purchases.
A common comment in this thread, by people who've decided to bail out, is that they started with Sawgrass ink, which originally had severe clogging issues.
Non-clogging ink and the introduction of ICC profiles, to help with color correction issues, came along much later.
Not saying it's a piece of cake, but the recipe for a good batter, is much improved :-)
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#24]
25 May 2005
To: ALL
From: Michael [#25]
7 Jun 2005
To: LARRY (CENTURYBADGE) [#10] 7 Jun 2005
I concur.
Bought their inks and color correction for an Epson 3000 several years ago. Terrible results. Blacks were green, colors shifted from one print to the next, etc.
TG refused to respond to email requests for help, so finally called and was finally told they knew there were problems with their color correction and inks with the 3000, not gonna help you.
Actually, I find Sawgrass inks and Powerdriver great. Good color, consistant color. Just so expensive.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#26]
7 Jun 2005
To: Michael [#25] 8 Jun 2005
I started long ago with a 3000 and Sawgrass inks. Color correction was very good. The printer kept clogging and was replaced twice by Epson and repaired once by SG. After the repair I switched to Color Factory inks. I had to make the first set of color correction ICM's for accurate color. No clogs at all for years. Then CF went out of business.
I switched to TG. Rare clogs and very good color correction. Maybe the older models of 3000's are a bit different, but when following the installation instructions step by step, the correction was virtually perfect. I have seen complaints that the black was faintly greenish, but never had that my self. (Yes a greyscale does have color shift at points, but so do almost all inks for sublimation.)
I have always had good phone service from them on the rare times I needed to contact them. I am very surprised that the printer, (1280), purchased from them was not replaced even though it was out of warranty. That does feel wrong.
Did you ever send Paul an email about the problem? My experience with him is that he will do right by the customers.
From: Michael [#27]
8 Jun 2005
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#26] 8 Jun 2005
After several brands of ink over the past 4 years I'm back with Sawgrass. Their IQ ink seems to have resolved most of color problems, such as reddish blacks, off gamut greens, etc. they used to have. At least for the 3000.
Yes, I contacted Paul when I was having problems and he shunted me off to his minion in charge of after sale problems which is when I was told they were aware of problems with the Epson 3000 but weren't going to do anything about it.
In Pauls favor, he did refund purchase price.
From: logojohn [#28]
10 Jun 2005
To: ALL
Someone did a few small jobs here and there but I didn't really have time to try it and was not all that much in a hurry after some of the comments here. There have been some minor problems with clogging usually fixed by the cleaning utility. Someone found a message elsewhere that you had to use the regular inks for the cleaning for best results. Haven't tried it yet.
We had a (only 1 :'-( ) slow day last week and I played around with doing a color photo on a plaque and also on metal. I was very impressed with the quality and detail.
I plan to use it when people want photographs or must have a color logo on a brushed gold or silver plaque plate (maybe make an inset area directly in the wood) or directly on a unisub surface plaque.
Trying to get the exact settings to laser a photo takes way too much time. This took virtually no editing and came out beautiful.
Today it really helped get our ox out of the ditch. We had delivered a 4 color silk screen of 500 pieces of a 1.5" disc. The customer rejected them because there were gradients and many other shades of the same colors which didn't show up with that process.
Luckily ID Plates had enough white surface discs already made so we got them within an hour. The color and detail was very accurate, showing subtle variances of the shades and gradients. I am very picky but these looked very good to me. They all fit on about 20 letter size sheets and were delivered to the customer later in the day.
On a side note, I think the disks were out of the new material Stunt Engraver has been talking about. I liked the looks of the finished product better than the other stuff we had sheets of. It was a little bit glossy but also had a little matte look to it.
Sublimation is a great thing to have in your bag of tricks. I am not going to market it aggressively. I don't want to give people the idea to switch from standard laser badges or plaques we are already doing. But if they are asking for it, it is nice to be able to offer it. With the cost of inks and such, I can see charging the same as an engraved or lasered badge or plaque.
I am also not going to offer trinkets where you have to do artwork for one $5 item. I did see some tiles inset into wood boxes and other such gifts. Those seem to be worth a little aggravation.
It also has come in handy to do a small quantity of things for customers who buy large quantities of other things.
Is there a third option for "getting into or out of sublimation." Like getting into it (a little) when it is the best option for the task at hand . . . that is worth the trouble versus other options.
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