Full Version: Donation vs. Pay
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#85]
19 Jul 2005
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#83] 19 Jul 2005
Brian,
This is what I have been asking for also. If you look back a few posts you will find one from David Takes that outlines a broad "vision" of possibilities.... when/if this goes pay.
Should half of those ideas become a reality, it would be worth the money, but only if content does not become stagnant, which I don't think it will.
One thing I am convinced of is the "intent" of David L. His desire is to improve the over all industry, through networking, education and association. Will it all pan out? Hell, I don't know, but as Anthony Robbins says..... try it. If it doesn't work, try something different, if THAT doesn't work try something different..unti you find what DOES work.....
For example, changing servers and software. Good idea, didn't work. Here we are back. Starting an "ethics" committee. Good idea. Didn't work. Going pay? Good idea? I don't know. Will it work? won't know until we try. If it fails will we come back to this? More than likely.
Just my two cents. Want change?
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#86]
19 Jul 2005
To: Sei (SEIMA) [#84] 19 Jul 2005
You're certainly one of those who could write their way into a membership.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#87]
19 Jul 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#86] 19 Jul 2005
I guess I wonder if what you are suggesting is a good idea......Some people that find it difficult to pay for on a personal level will be able to write an article to get access? Will this option apply equaly, or will each article have a different value. What if you are inundated with articles...will you refuse some, or will each and every article earn access?
your statement makes it feel more like a club, with the internship of writing an article (wink wink, nudge nudge). Some will be able to get in that way....some won't. Right now no one is getting any value for their contributions on the forum.......Is that any different from an article contribution? Look at some of the posts by Rodney Gold......Many of his posts could easly be articles....does he get a free pass then? Does every member that posted helpful information in any length get a free pass? I can think of a dozen people that should be on that list, perhaps even more. Writing for membership could be a slippery slope....
What say you?
From: Sei (SEIMA) [#88]
19 Jul 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#86] 19 Jul 2005
Thanks, David. It's good of you to say that. It is something I had considered. I just worry, with only three years of experience under my belt and zero training/seminars/ or classes, how much I have to say.
But, then, when you get right down to it, I guess I have something for everyone with two years or less under their belt. ;)
Sei
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#89]
19 Jul 2005
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#83] 19 Jul 2005
So far, nobody has been able to put their finger on the reason(s) this forum, among the other industry-related free forums, is the most active.
Will becoming a pay site mark the end of that popularity? I don't think so.
It's interesting, that, for the mostpart, the people I consider our MVPs aren't involved in this thread. They're busy going about what they enjoy, which is offering their time-honored experience to those who can benefit.
Will becoming a pay site mark the end of their generous sharing of information? Extremely doubtful.
I'm not certain why you hold our former home (Delphi) up as some sort of threat. In light of our impending change, wouldn't you think people would already be rallying around the concept of mounting a challenge to the evil, money-grubbing Engraving Etc. forum?
I haven't visited the Delphi forum for weeks. I just checked, and guess how many new posts have been generated in that time? Zero!
Bottom line: I'm not saying, "Wait until this joint goes pay, it'll be great!" I'm saying it's great now and many feel it's worth paying for - as is.
Those who will leave, will leave. Those who will stay, will stay.
Naturally, we'll continue to put our effort into the tradition of educating and informing those who remain and those who follow.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#90]
19 Jul 2005
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#87] 19 Jul 2005
You certainly like playing the antagonist, don't you?
You are a far greater pot stirrer than even David. :P
Or are you just overly cheap? :P :O :-)
[See you do not have the patent on pot stirring.] (devil)
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#91]
19 Jul 2005
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#87] 19 Jul 2005
I can't think of much to add much to the post I just made to you, other than articles would be accepted on their merit.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#92]
19 Jul 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#89] 19 Jul 2005
I don't hold it up as a threat at all....Just as an option for those that choose not to pay. The real threat to the forum is making bad choices. Why be indifferent to those that appreciate the status quo?....What makes your vision of changes merit payment?
"Those who will leave, will leave. Those who will stay, will stay.
Naturally, we'll continue to put our effort into the tradition of educating and informing those who remain and those who follow."
This statement has none of the "meat, or vision" I was expecting to see from you.
What exactly will paying get the members that they don't have now...?
Otherwise all you are saying is that ..."gee we are going to make you pay for what has been free for ages."
All the great stuff here is driven by the membership that participates, not necessarily what you or the other mods personally have to offer (although I find what they have to offer very helpful). Up to this point, you have offered the medium of a forum, and nothing more. That medium still exists without any fees over at Delphi (don't look at it as a threat...it's just the reality of the situation)...If you offer nothing more than the status quo with a fee, I question if it will succeed for an extended period of time.
No one really knows I guess....It should be quite an experiment.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#93]
19 Jul 2005
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#90] 19 Jul 2005
I thought this was the forum suggestions/questions thread. Am I posting to the wrong place?
My questions have nothing to do with what I would spend here or how I value the forum (which I happen to do or I wouldn't bother with an opinion). I spend money on plenty of worthwhile things like this forum. It's not about the money...its about the membership. Losing them loses what makes the forum worth while.....don't you guys get it??? Its like the last "experiment" you all thought switching forum software would be awesome.....guess what...it sucked. Membership thought it sucked, and 90 percent of them weren't bothering. This time do it right...if your gonna go pay....think it through. Get information, answer questions....and get it right!...don't just decide and force it on everyone, or we will all be back where we started in a month or two from now wondering what went wrong and why the change was made.
I was very involved in this same situation over on DSSI, and we went through the gammut on the same subjects prior to any action.....so for me it's kind of a "been there, done that" kind of situation. I felt that some of the tough questions that went on over there would be worthy of asking here.
Personaly I think the wink wink nudge nudge method of trading for membership would come off as unfair. Paying a set value for an article would be more fair, and could justify membership fee's (as a cost of information) in general.
Regarding the patent on pot stiring...David had that patented far before I ever started posting...I spose I owe him some money for that then eh? :)
EDITED: 19 Jul 2005 by RALLYGUY1
From: UCONN Dave & Lynn too (DANDL48) [#94]
19 Jul 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#89] 19 Jul 2005
You said in part,"
Couldn't agree more.
For those of you who are for the status quo, who do you think has been paying for all the programming that went into this forum and is still going on? It's David.
Just my $.02
Dave
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#95]
19 Jul 2005
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#90] 19 Jul 2005
BTW Harvey,
I donated $200 dollars worth of product or services to the logo contest because I value this forum.
Cheap I am not.
From: Shaddy [#96]
19 Jul 2005
To: UCONN Dave & Lynn too (DANDL48) [#94] 19 Jul 2005
I'm certainly not suggesting he's doing nothing, I'm just asking for clarification on what you meant. It sounds like you're implying they've done this from scratch.
Shaddy
From: UCONN Dave & Lynn too (DANDL48) [#97]
19 Jul 2005
To: Shaddy [#96] 19 Jul 2005
Where do I say or imply that they are building it from scratch?
I will let the others, David L, David T, or Harvey answer the specifics changes that have been made. I know that David L is a total novice when it comes to code and that is one of the reasons for the need for a programmer/designer.
Dave
From: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#98]
19 Jul 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#89] 19 Jul 2005
David,
I enjoy the forum and probably get much more from it than I give. Having said that, most experienced people in the industry could easily get by without the forum if need be. For me, it is entertaining and informative, but not essential.
I believe that you will lose more of the experienced people than you think. You will also have difficulty getting newbies to pay for something if they do not know if there will be adequate value in return.
Throw the switch, see if the lights come on or if it is dark.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#99]
19 Jul 2005
To: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#98] 19 Jul 2005
As you say, there's only one way to find out and we'll try that way.
Essential? Maybe, maybe not.
A wonderful resource, even if only needed on occasion? Absolutely!
From: Upacreek [#100]
19 Jul 2005
To: ALL
I'm getting dizzy here guys. Things are going in circles ....
Some comments...
Sei .... just because you haven't had training or attended seminars does not mean you do not have valuable knowledge. You could attend a training seminar and discover you know far more then the teacher due to your work experience.
Rallyguy.... your question has not been answered. How many of you purchased your equipment without knowing what you paid for or looked at the specs? He is asking a valid question.
Michel
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#101]
20 Jul 2005
To: Upacreek [#100] 20 Jul 2005
Michel,
No one ever said how the paid format of the website and/or forum would be presented. Based on the comments here, it would be a good idea to give folks a sneak preview once it is developed.
There is another thread (Website Wish List) that was started to give everyone the opportunity to contribute their thoughts as to what features and benefits would be most beneficial to them.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#102]
20 Jul 2005
To: ALL
I want to apologize for even asking the original question or posing the suggestion.
Had I known it would become all of this I never would have...... I think I hear the recess bell. Lets go play in the sandbox......
EDITED: 20 Jul 2005 by C_BURKE
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#103]
20 Jul 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#102] 20 Jul 2005
Chuck,
I think the questions are good for the thought process. Your suggestion was a good one, and should be considered. (I assume it will be if I know the people that run this forum well enough). Don't mistake tough questions for criticism. I think we all want the same thing here....a great forum. Sometimes the self examination of why we do things and what we want to do to make them better can be painful. In the end, I see a better forum out of all of it.
Brian G.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#104]
20 Jul 2005
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#103] 20 Jul 2005
Wow Brian. We totally agree on this one.
Not a first but a little unusual.
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