Full Version: Could this be dye sublimation?

From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#11]
 8 Sep 2005
To: David (SEETHESUNRISE) [#10] 8 Sep 2005

A laser mark is not always an ablated (IE eroded) , the beam can heat the localised area and discolour it and the plastic might "foam" hence the rise in its surface and the fact that you think its a "hasty" fill
1000 a day is least 125 an hour , ie a cycle time of 15-25 secs each , that will not be a process involving a rotary engraver as fixing time etc would be more than that. Im sure its a Galvo laser of some type.
Has your customer given an indication of what they are currently paying ? That too would give you some idea of what process is used , part from which it would give you an idea of whether you should pursue this job.

From: Michael [#12]
 9 Sep 2005
To: David (SEETHESUNRISE) [#1] 9 Sep 2005

Based on your description and the photo it looks like the prcess used might have been pad printing.

From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#13]
 9 Sep 2005
To: David (SEETHESUNRISE) [#10] 9 Sep 2005

David,

Yes, when I mentioned a hasty fill, I meant one which the paint (?) is applied and immediately wiped off. Normally, you'd let it partially dry before the final cleaning.

As Rodney mentioned, at 1000 pcs. per day, whoever is doing these isn't going to get bogged down in labor intensive marking/filling methods.

On the other hand, running multiple machines and with enough hands it's possible to hit that mark with rotary engraving.

Some companies who mark items for the ad specialty industry run 24 hr. operations, in 3 shifts.

From: trophyman (MIKEBERGER) [#14]
 9 Sep 2005
To: David (SEETHESUNRISE) [#1] 9 Sep 2005

Looking at it. It might be hotstamped. The hot type being pressed in the plastic can also cause the edges to raise slightly The color fill would be from the printing foil which would bound to the plastic. Normally hotstamping would be a surface process, but its can also emboss into the plactic to create an engraved look. The per day quantity could easily be reached by the use of a hotstamping press which uses a computerized type wheel similar to those used by companies that market one off hotstamped name badges and credit cards (i.e. your name and card numbers) along with small quantity promotional products.

EDITED: 9 Sep 2005 by MIKEBERGER

From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#15]
 9 Sep 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#13] 9 Sep 2005

One thing not mentioned that seems possible is to laser through a mask then use a fill, let it partially dry then remove the mask. That would give some depth and slightly raised edges the thickness of the mask.

As far as the fill, is it soft or hard? Is the area it is on soft or hard? That could give clues as to the fill.

If you can, cut into a piece of the fill, straight down, then at an angle to meet the first cut, cutting out a wedge. That will give you a depth of fill and show you if the bottom of the fill is a straight line or fades like sublimation will fade off.

EDITED: 9 Sep 2005 by HARVEY-ONLY

From: David (SEETHESUNRISE) [#16]
 9 Sep 2005
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#15] 9 Sep 2005

Thanks to everyone for their input. Masking is what I was going to be using to do this. I have two problems, finding the right paint/ink/whatever to bond to it.

The other problem I am having is perfecting the mask itself. I am using painter's tape. I would engrave through it, then when I go to pull it off (I waited various amounts of time) some of the paint that is on top of the mask would be pulled down to the letters like elastic & bunch up on the sides of the letters.

I thought it was fibers from the tape, but the more I looked the more I realized it was paint. It's so small that it's difficult to clean off and you can't do it with just water (depending on the paint).

For instance, in the word "Theis". I took one end of the tape and pulled slowly straight up immediately after applying the paint. Then, the right side of the "s", basically the very outside, paint bunched up and looked like fibers.

The longer I waited the worse it became. I waited 15 minutes because that's how long this one took to dry to touch and basically the paint "bunched" around all the letters.

EDITED: 9 Sep 2005 by SEETHESUNRISE

From: John (ICTJOHN) [#17]
 9 Sep 2005
To: David (SEETHESUNRISE) [#16] 9 Sep 2005

David,

Do not use painters tape as a mask for lasering, it does not hold well and the paint will seep underneath and make a mess. One of the better materials to use is vinyl applicator tape. it kind of looks like masking tape but has a smoother finish. It is used to transfer vinyl graphics onto banners and such.

Also, when color filling - let the paint dry - not just to the touch, but dry completly or the paint will peel right back out with the tape.

From: David (SEETHESUNRISE) [#18]
 9 Sep 2005
To: John (ICTJOHN) [#17] 9 Sep 2005

Thanks for the advice. Where do I get this vinyl applicator tape. A sign supply store?

From: John (ICTJOHN) [#19]
 9 Sep 2005
To: David (SEETHESUNRISE) [#18] 9 Sep 2005

Yes, I think places like Laserbits (they call it Paper Mask) have it as well.

From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#20]
 9 Sep 2005
To: David (SEETHESUNRISE) [#19] 9 Sep 2005

David,

Specialty Tapes offers it as well.

From: David (SEETHESUNRISE) [#21]
 9 Sep 2005
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#20] 9 Sep 2005

Thanks. I just went to a local sign supply store to pick it up. We'll see if that makes it better.

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