Full Version: Evaluation of IKONmetal ?
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#9]
28 Feb 2007
To: ALL
Some of you may have seen the finalists in the "Best use of IKON metal in awards" contest at the ARA show.
It was really my first chance to see the product first-hand.
I was surprised to find that the material has some weight, similar to metal. I originally thought it was merely a metal look-alike, and lightweight as you would find with most resin products.
Very impressive, in that, the material is very machineable (rotary, laser, sandcarve) and can actually (with proper compounds and buffing wheels) be polished to a high gloss finish.
I've asked for photos of the winning entry, which I'll display here, once it's received.
EDITED: 28 Feb 2007 by DGL
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#10]
28 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#9] 28 Feb 2007
I would cross "sandcarve" off the list of tools to use on this material. I've had no luck with sandcarving IKONmetal. With 180 grit abrasive, it seems to simply deflect the abrasives.
I do like IKONmetal with the laser, using multiple passes for the depth I prefer. Those with higher powered lasers will especially love this material for high-end awards and small signs.
I run multiple passes in my 30-watt laser, touch up the piece with a quick sandblast, paint the whole piece, edges included, let dry, then lay the piece face-down on a sheet of fine grit sandpaper, rub back and forth to remove the paint on the surface, which exposes the raised letters and graphics, giving the piece a brushed finish. I then apply a couple coats of clear lacquer or polyurethane.
Below is a small sample I did early on. The engraving isn't to the depth I achieve now, but still looks nice.
EDITED: 28 Feb 2007 by DATAKES
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#11]
28 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#9] 28 Feb 2007
David,
I forgot to mention that I used to sell these small bronze, magnesium or zinc plates like this for $65-$75. I would order them from Gemini or Pella Engraving.
I can now produce the exact same look and hopefully, durability, for a lower price to the customer and higher profit to my business. Win-Win!
You do have to have a means of cutting the material. I have not tried vector cutting it, but I have heard some people are doing it. I am sure it is with higher-powered lasers. (50-watt +)
I want a 50-watt! Give me a 50-watt! Waahhhhhh! :'-(
EDITED: 28 Feb 2007 by DATAKES
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12]
28 Feb 2007
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#11] 28 Feb 2007
David,
You've seen the price of bronze castings these days. >.<
The people I talked to at the show (potential end users) saw making casting-like products as a way to provide a similar product, in-house, saving both the standard 4-6 week production time from Matthews etc., while pocketing more greenbacks. :-)
Good example, in your previous post.
There were some nice laser, vector-cut applications used in the production of the Ikon metal contest entries.
Expensive material?
Not necessarily, if you find the right application(s).
EDITED: 28 Feb 2007 by DGL
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#13]
28 Feb 2007
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#10] 28 Feb 2007
So how DID you cut it?
This might be worth looking into.
Another question, if you have been sellling these to your customers and they have gladly been paying $65+ for them, why lower your price?
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#14]
28 Feb 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#13] 28 Feb 2007
It's lower, but not much lower. :-)
I cut mine with a safety saw. You could also use a table saw with a fine-toothed blade. I like to sandblast the edges a little to get rid of the tooth marks.
EDITED: 28 Feb 2007 by DATAKES
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#15]
28 Feb 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#13] 28 Feb 2007
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#16]
28 Feb 2007
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#15] 28 Feb 2007
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#17]
28 Feb 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#16] 28 Feb 2007
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18]
25 Mar 2007
To: ALL
EDITED: 25 Mar 2007 by DGL
From: Zonas [#19]
25 Mar 2007
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#10] 26 Mar 2007
I saw the material at the 2006 ARA show and was impressed, but didn't have a laser then (yes I could rotary, but not for some of the things I wanted to try). Since I didn't get to the show this year, I was so pleased when they called and asked if I would like a sample. I'm waiting for it to arrive. Since I don't have all the specs, etc. yet I'm going to ask. Can this material be used as markers in the cemetary?
Zona
From: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#20]
25 Mar 2007
To: Zonas [#19] 26 Mar 2007
Zona,
The guy I talked to about using it outside was pushing the bronze colored material. He told me that it would be great outside, as long as it had a good coat (or three) of polyurethane. He said that all their tests were great on the stuff.
Are you looking at putting these on top of granite markers?
Cody
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#21]
26 Mar 2007
To: Zonas [#19] 26 Mar 2007
Zona,
I have heard the same thing. You need some good clearcoat on the IKONmetal for it to survice the outdoors. With that being said, your weatherability is only going to be as good as your clearcoat.
Most bronzing companies bake their clearcoats. I'm not sure how this material stands up to heat.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#22]
26 Mar 2007
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#21] 26 Mar 2007
I think the exception to the clear-coating is with the stainless steel finish.
The other colors (as with actual metal) will tarnish, with exposure to the elements.
From: Zonas [#23]
26 Mar 2007
To: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#20] 26 Mar 2007
Yes, I was considering it, even if only temp. I'm sooooooo upset with Matthews (memorial side) right now, that I'd love to find an alternative so they wouldn't get the job I have (and need by Memorial Day).
Zona
From: Toni (TONI56) [#24]
26 Mar 2007
To: Zonas [#23] 26 Mar 2007
From: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#25]
26 Mar 2007
To: Zonas [#23] 26 Mar 2007
Zona,
Let me find out who did ours last week. It's a memorial company out of Oregon, but I don't remember the name of it. We got it in Friday, and I was very pleased. Not to mention the fact that it only took 2 weeks to get it.
I'll try to find out who that was on Tuesday.....and I'll let you know.
Cody
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#26]
26 Mar 2007
To: Zonas [#23] 26 Mar 2007
Zona,
Contact Gemini Plaques. They have turned jobs around for me in 8 days.
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#27]
30 Mar 2007
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#26] 30 Mar 2007
It was a 2"x3" brass colored piece and while I'm not finished with it yet my early observations are:
1. It looks great and feels great. Has good brass color and a lot of heft.
2. It's hard to engrave. I attempted to do a relief similar to your sample and after 7 passes at 100% power and a speed of 35 ips on a 45 watt machine I was able to achieve a depth of only 1/32". The cycle time for the piece was 2:04 minutes.
3. Besides the difficulty in engraving to depth the piece warped. After 7 cycles it was warm to the touch and began to noticeably lift up at the ends.
4. I will post a picture when finished. My concern now is all the time and work involved to save a few dollars over zinc from Pella or another supplier and of more concern is whether this product would delaminate after repeated cycles at more intense settings.
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#28]
30 Mar 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#27] 30 Mar 2007
Mike,
With my 30-watt laser I have to run the job about 5-7 times to get a depth that you can paint fill and have a 2-dimensional look. This is why I don't do large plates with this material. It's not cost effective to do so with a laser.
I have not had any problem with warping, but I can definitely see that as a possibility with a higher watt laser and larger plates. The heat combined with the composition of the material may be conducive to this problem. It looks like routing may be the best option for achieving depth with this material.
Hopefully, the rep from Photobrasive will join this discussion and share her thoughts.
EDITED: 30 Mar 2007 by DATAKES