Full Version: Dye Sub on Metal

From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#8]
 14 Oct 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#7] 14 Oct 2006

Harvey,

Production suggestion for you (and anyone else that wants to save time pressing)...........

Use an old t-shirt on the platen, and press metal face down for 60 seconds. No need for a foam pad, and the fabric from the t-shirt lets any steam/moisture from the paper escape with no blow outs....so no pre-heating necessary.

We do this day in and day out and can press transfers right off the printer with no blow out problems......We use accuplot paper.

From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#9]
 14 Oct 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#8] 15 Oct 2006

One of the problems with blowouts is that the surface of the paper has a vapor barrier, that is why it works for sublimation. Accuplot and others use a special clay for that barrier. It is not the moisture in the paper that is the problem, it is the moisture stored in the surface coating and from the ink. Those are on the pressing side. That is why that side feels sticky for a few seconds.

Some of the things that I do cannot be pressed through the substrate, so I have gotten used to always doing it the same way. I picked up a 1/16" grey silicon pad from Mick a few years ago and it sure beats the original one I had. It works well for sublimation and Color Laser toner transfer.

I learned early on the problems with surface moisture, especially working in a humid basement area. It is so much a part of my routine that it really takes no time at all. If you are doing multiple pressings, just take the item out and lay the paper down, then move the pressed item to the cooling area. By the time you turn around again, the paper is dry.

From: Mike (MIKEN) [#10]
 14 Oct 2006
To: ALL

Thank you all. You've given me some options I haven't tried. My press works very well for other dye sub materials and very well for color laser transfers so I doubt that I have a temperature problem but if these suggestions don't work then I'll buy the thermometer.

I'll keep you posted on my progress.

From: JHayes55 [#11]
 15 Oct 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#10] 15 Oct 2006

Mike - we use the same paper, ink and metal that you have mentioned. My guess is time, pressure or temp is the issue. The replies you have received are all good - I'll bet you find you problem some simple change. I would give you times we press metal but that is Toni's area of the shop so mine would only be a guess - if you need it, drop me an email and I will have her give you a reply.

Message 5096.12 was deleted

From: jumbo (JIMCLOUGH) [#13]
 15 Oct 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#1] 15 Oct 2006

Mike
Just a thought, but you are removing the transparent film before pressing?
Jim

From: Mike (MIKEN) [#14]
 15 Oct 2006
To: jumbo (JIMCLOUGH) [#13] 15 Oct 2006

Jim:

Yes, I think that Brian, Harvey and Joe are pointing me in the rght direction I'll just have to work on it some more. Most of my sub work is frp or mugs so I haven't spent much time with the metals.
Thanks,

From: Mike (MIKEN) [#15]
 15 Oct 2006
To: JHayes55 [#11] 15 Oct 2006

Joe:

Thanks for the offer. I'll fool around with some of these suggestions and see if I can solve it. But I may end up calling you for help.

I'm going to try Brian's t-shirt idea first because it's cheap and easy.

EDITED: 15 Oct 2006 by MIKEN

From: gt350ed [#16]
 15 Oct 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#14] 15 Oct 2006

Mike: Perhaps you have solved your problem by now. But if not, I am SURE that your problem is, in part, that you were/are imprinting with the metal and transfer paper face-up. It needs to be face down. The only reason Harvey is getting away with having it face up is due to his use of a pad as a barrier.

Over the years, I have used Novachrome, JDS and Unisub, in that order. Unisub metals, particularly white aluminum, are far and away the best.

With my Knight 20KS swing away digital press, I press at an indicated 400 - 402 degrees for about 50 seconds. I get great results. My transfer paper is Accuplot. Always has been.

Good luck! You'll figure it out, I'm sure.

From: Mike (MIKEN) [#17]
 15 Oct 2006
To: gt350ed [#16] 15 Oct 2006

Ed:
Thank you. Where are you buying accuplot?

From: gt350ed [#18]
 15 Oct 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#17] 15 Oct 2006

Accuplot is readily available. Who is your dye-sub supplier? I know you mentioned Novachrome, an Accuplot supplier, but surely there are distributors closer to you in Missouri. Although they are not my favorite, Conde is in Mobile.

Others here on the forum may have other suppliers of Accuplot paper within your neighborhood.

From: Mike (MIKEN) [#19]
 15 Oct 2006
To: gt350ed [#18] 16 Oct 2006

Ed:

I'll check further. Just was't aware of my regular suppliers carrying it.

To date I've had good luck with Textprint XP but can't seem to find the right combination of anything for True Pix. As I said before I haven't been able to do anything on metal with either one but I'll experiment with the suggestions previously made and see where it takes me.
Thanks,

From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#20]
 15 Oct 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#19] 16 Oct 2006

Mike,

Sometimes, hi-release papers, such as Textprint XP, aren't compatible with metal. Releases too much dye, leading to "cockeling" or a "beading" appearance.

1401, commonly known as True Pix has pretty much replaced Accuplot as the industry standard.

Why?

1) Thicker sheet thickness, results in fewer "feed" problems.

2) Better release of dye, for more vibrant colors.

3) Better archivability; meaning you can print transfers further ahead of actual pressing, without the transfers bleeding or migrating.

Note: It's never a good idea to print transfers "too" far ahead of your pressing schedule; meaning more than a couple of days.

I can't understand, with the information you've given, why you're having such a difficulty in printing metal.

If you'd like, you can send me some of your transfers and metal samples and I may be able to CSI your problem.

EDITED: 15 Oct 2006 by DGL

From: Zonas [#21]
 16 Oct 2006
To: gt350ed [#16] 16 Oct 2006

Not only Harvey gets away with it (devil)  I've printed metal face up with only a teflon sheet and with a rubber pad - haven't noticed any difference.

Zona

From: Mike (MIKEN) [#22]
 16 Oct 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#20] 16 Oct 2006

David:

Thanks for the offer. As with most things I'm pretty sure this will boil down to operator error.

I'm going to spend some time today experimenting to see if I can resolve it. If not I'll take you up on your offer.

From: Mike (MIKEN) [#23]
 16 Oct 2006
To: ALL

Well, I've fooled around with it today and find, like everybody says, put the paper on the bottom. I have gotten much better results today including saleable results using Unisub.

I did not try the Textprint today, only true Pix. Results were ok. didn't really pop like I expect sub stuff to do. It seemed like a lot of ink remained on the paper.

At least it's not sticking or leaving marks.

Thanks everybody for your help.

From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#24]
 16 Oct 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#23] 16 Oct 2006

If you sub UnisubFR with the image on the bottom, you will need extra time to get the heat through the material. The accepting surface needs to reach 400* for a certain time.

If not enough time the colors may be a little off and it will not have the pop because too much ink is on the paper and not in the product.

From: Mike (MIKEN) [#25]
 16 Oct 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#24] 17 Oct 2006

I think you're right. I didn't try times longer than 60 seconds but there was consider ink left on the paper. Next time I'll extend it.

For sure I'm going to Unisub metal though.

From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#26]
 16 Oct 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#25] 16 Oct 2006

Hi Mike,

Unisub is properly done at 400 degrees for 60 seconds through the back. Aluminum conducts heat very efficiently, and it works just as well front or back with the temps and times.....Adding a pad can change the times however....so that will have to be accounted for.....

From: Mike (MIKEN) [#27]
 16 Oct 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#26] 16 Oct 2006

Brian:
Thanks, I'm getting closer. Just need to tweak it a bit.

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