Full Version: Wraps vs. Press

From: precisionlaser [#14]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#13] 4 Mar 2007

Doc,

I visited a company on Friday that does a lot of mugs. Their set up was a gang of Epson C86s/Artainium Ink Bulk Systems/mug wraps and several (about 12 if I remember correctly) Hamilton-Beach convection ovens. I discussed this set up with them, and they said that the multiple C86s were a lot cheaper than a larger printer and gave them critical backup when one unit fails. I asked them why not use a conveyor oven and again they had a good response: backup and convenience...apparently a conveyor oven takes up a lot of space and takes a while to heat up to the correct temp.

I've also spoken to other "grey beards" in the business and all of them are unanimous: if you're going to do volume, use wraps and ovens.

For what it's worth...

From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#15]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#9] 4 Mar 2007

quote:
After all was said and done, it took me 15 minutes to prep all the mugs, 80 minutes of baking, and 15 minutes of cleanup - a total of about 100 minutes. I know 80 + 15 + 15 = 110 but 10 minutes of prep time was while the first batch of mugs was in the oven.



Gary,

With a press and a satellite, one could do the same quantity of mugs in 60 minutes......including prep.......

What an interesting discussion this has become.

From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#16]
 4 Mar 2007
To: precisionlaser [#14] 4 Mar 2007

quote:
I've also spoken to other "grey beards" in the business and all of them are unanimous: if you're going to do volume, use wraps and ovens.



I wonder if they are the same ones that steered me to the mug press? ( insert devious laugh here).


quote:

For what it's worth...


Your experience is worth a lot Mark. Keep it up.

From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#17]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#1] 4 Mar 2007

Jim,

It will be interesting to hear about your ultimate decision.

From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18]
 4 Mar 2007
To: ALL

Although I've never used a mug wrap, over the years, the "common wisdom" has been wraps are the way to go for volume orders and more importantly, reliable top to bottom coverage.

Don't forget that there's opportunity in wraps for objects other than coffee mugs:

http://laserreproductions.com/heatwrap.html

From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#19]
 4 Mar 2007
To: precisionlaser [#14] 4 Mar 2007

quote:
Their set up was a gang of Epson C86s/Artainium Ink Bulk Systems/mug wraps and several (about 12 if I remember correctly) Hamilton-Beach convection ovens.

Sounds like quite an operation, Mark! Unfortunately I don't have the room for all that additional equipment....but I do like the sound of their oven-of-choice. A quick Google found the unit at Walmart for under $80! Judging by the size of it, I'm guessing about 4 mugs will fit in it at once....correct?

EDITED: 4 Mar 2007 by GREAT_ATLANTIC

From: precisionlaser [#20]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#19] 4 Mar 2007

I believe that they told me that they could cook 6 at a time, but that depends on the wrap you use as well as the size of the mug.

From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#21]
 4 Mar 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#15] 4 Mar 2007

quote:
With a press and a satellite, one could do the same quantity of mugs in 60 minutes...

This setup runs about $1,200 Chuck? Might be able to make that happen if (...and that's a big if) a large order were placed. But Murphy's Law could also put me firmly in the hole if we were to rely on 5-10 mugs at a shot, particularly with a new market for us.
quote:
It will be interesting to hear about your ultimate decision.
For me too! :S

EDITED: 4 Mar 2007 by GREAT_ATLANTIC

From: Mick [#22]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#11] 4 Mar 2007

quote:
Mick....your wraps are among those we are looking at. The dssi folks seem to really rave at the quality. Have you considered a special offer for the members here at EE? (angel)
quote:

10% discount on wraps and our brand new mug press called the SmartPress. That takes the press down to $585

EDITED: 4 Mar 2007 by MICK

From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#23]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18] 4 Mar 2007

quote:
Although I've never used a mug wrap, over the years, the "common wisdom" has been wraps are the way to go for volume orders and more importantly, reliable top to bottom coverage.

Do you use a press in your sublimation business, David?

Pretty interesting to see that other sizes of wraps/products are available.

From: Mick [#24]
 4 Mar 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#15] 4 Mar 2007

Two presses might be better than a primary and a satellite. If the primary goes down, you lose both and don't have a backup.

From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#25]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#23] 4 Mar 2007

Jim,

I don't do many mugs. Mostly plates for award plaques and name badges.

When I do press mugs, I have carte blanche at a friend's shop who owns a Novachrome Mug Pro. Older model, with less top to bottom coverage than the newer model, but it's a very nice press.

I try to keep the image area to about 2.875" tall, which is ample for most applications.

From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#26]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Mick [#22] 4 Mar 2007

Mick,

Get out the wet noodle, but throughout the ARA show I never did lay eyes upon the SmartPress.

Any pictures?

From: Mick [#27]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#26] 4 Mar 2007

Too bad David, I'll put more info in the Advertising/Buy/Sell area

From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#28]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Mick [#24] 4 Mar 2007

quote:
Two presses might be better than a primary and a satellite. If the primary goes down, you lose both and don't have a backup.


Mick,
You have a good point.

From: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#29]
 4 Mar 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#15] 4 Mar 2007

You are right but you are working for the entire 60 minutes, non-stop, and are getting nothing else done in the mean time. I, on the other hand, have the whole time the mugs are cooking to work on other projects. I can make twice as much money in the same amount of time.

And, if I had 4 sets of wraps and two ovens I could do a gazillion times more mugs than you could with your press.

Best of all, my 4 sets of wraps and two ovens only cost me $360 - how much was your satellite again? :)

From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#30]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#21] 4 Mar 2007

quote:
This setup runs about $1,200 Chuck?


That is correct Jim. But if you truly are looking at the potential for a 1000 mug order..........

I can see that Ed and myself very well may be in the minority as this thread progresses, and I DO know there are lots of folks that have more experience than I, and ultimately it is a decision based upon personal preference......but the press, while more expensive just seems so much less cumbersome to *me*. Plus it has less of a foot print on your workspace than an oven.

Ok, I believe that has added up to about 6 cents now. I'm still offering change if you want it. :B

From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#31]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#29] 4 Mar 2007

quote:
You are right but you are working for the entire 60 minutes, non-stop, and are getting nothing else done in the mean time.


Gary,
This comes down to a work style. For *me*, I tend to not work as efficiently when I am jumping between jobs or projects. I find it is more efficient and a better use of my time for *me* to focus on one project at a time.....
I see your point, however as I mentioned to Jim, ultimately it comes down to a matter of preference in tools.

From: gt350ed [#32]
 4 Mar 2007
To: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#29] 4 Mar 2007

quote:
You are right but you are working for the entire 60 minutes, non-stop, and are getting nothing else done in the mean time.


Actually, while mugs are in our mug presses, at about 5 minutes per, we are running our laser throughout the day on a variety of high margin projects.

The bottomline is do what works for you. Mug Pro presses work for us. Wraps may work for others.

BTW, no one has mentioned wraps for steins. Since we do quite a few steins, and we do them in the same press as the 11oz and 15oz mugs, we're even more convinced that the Mug Pro press is OUR way to go. And we have 6 years of being continuously online to prove it.

From: gt350ed [#33]
 4 Mar 2007
To: gt350ed [#32] 4 Mar 2007

BTW, let me introduce you to our staff.....

Hi! I'm Ed. No, you were Ed last time, I'm Ed! And that guy over there running the mug press....that's Ed. So, who's the laser operator?

Oh, that's Ed, as well.

Let me introduce you to our Graphics Dept.


"Hi Ed!!"

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