Full Version: Trying to start Business
From: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#26]
16 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#8] 16 Mar 2007
Sorry--- more than a bit off topic!
From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#27]
16 Mar 2007
To: Cindy (CINDYM) [#4] 19 Mar 2007
With all due respect, rather poor advice without any knowledge of this newcomer's market, or frankly the most recent trends in the overall trophy market. While column-on-base remains a staple, the selection of alternative trophies that are neither labor-intensive nor lacking in significant margin is extraordinary. And these now outsell our traditional column trophies 3 to 1.
I've never quite understood dissuading anyone from grabbing a piece of such a powerful market.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#28]
16 Mar 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#27] 17 Mar 2007
Jim,
Are you talking about bobble heads and resins?
From: bosch [#29]
17 Mar 2007
To: ALL
To Everyone,
I am so pleased that you all are taking the time to respond to my post and appreciate all the input and it's great stuff. I want to assure to you that I'm not going to jump into this business without doing my homework. By doing my homework is how I located this forum and began reading it and now posting and learning more. Keep posting as it is valuable information to me
I have not done all the research that needs to be done and the approach that I am taking is find out what tools I need to start, what it's going to cost for the tools of the trade, the supplies, etc and then pound the pavement around the area to see who would be interested. As one post earlier stated I have to find out what I'm going to offer that will set me apart from my competition. If I can drum up interest that would give me potential customers for each of the sport seasons to start, then I have to do my ROI. Can I make the payments on the tools during startup, estimated time to become profitable, Advertising costs, etc.
From: bosch [#30]
17 Mar 2007
To: ALL
I'm just writing this so that you all know you are talking to someone that is not going into this with blinders on. I know I have work to do but I don't want to do all the leg work getting customers if I don't know the following
1. What are the minimum tools that I need to start up? (engraver,saw
to cut columns (dont know what its called), punch tool(s) for plagues
(I'm sure there are different punch tools), whatever else I need.
2. What engraver is best for startup? Rotary/Laser? Is there a
suggestion on a particular model?
3. Where can I get supplies for trophies? Right now I have found 1 place
4. How does the market charge for each item they make?
I need this so I can determine my startup costs. Once I know this I can determine what I have to bring in each month just to make payments. I know there is more to it than this I just want you all to know where I am at. I have just started my homework and I may not take a shot at it at all or I might start it in a month, or might start it in a year. I think anytime you start a business you are taking a risk now matter how much you plan. Like someone said in another post that went something like this....... You build your business around plan A and something comes along and now you go to plan B and your business changes. I don't want to go to plan C.
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#31]
17 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#30] 17 Mar 2007
From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#32]
17 Mar 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#28] 17 Mar 2007
Many of the (smart) manufacturers have become sensitive to our needs for trophies (a big term) under $10.00....under $6.00. And it is becoming easier with volume buying programs to hold the line on 3-4x pricing. You just have to be willing to consolidate more of your business with fewer distributors and sell these products.
About half of our business is on that side of the showroom....and I love trophies. Not just for the business reasons....but for what they stand, the reaction from the kids and parents (and quite a few poker players :B ,) the artistic quality, and the heritage. And when it does come to the business side, it can be very profitable.
From: Jer (DIAMOND) [#33]
17 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#30] 17 Mar 2007
I don't think anyone is going to tell you which is better, laser or rotary. We have a laser in our shop. My wife works at a local college and does all their engraving with a rotary. I would like to have a small rotary to go along with our laser. I guess the pluses and minuses are about even for each so you will need to look at the different models and decide for yourself.
For supplies check out www.jdsindustries.com and get a catalog. Also Continental Trophies (sorry I don't have a contact in front of me). Both companies are strong trophy suppliers with good prices. There are 100 more out there.
Again, do your homework and don't be afraid of trophies. I bet you will do OK with them but your business will move into other areas that will be more profitable and just as rewarding.
From: Jer (DIAMOND) [#34]
17 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#30] 17 Mar 2007
From: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#35]
17 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#30] 17 Mar 2007
1. What are the minimum tools that I need to start up? (engraver,saw
to cut columns (dont know what its called), punch tool(s) for plagues
(I'm sure there are different punch tools), whatever else I need.
Metal/Plastic Shear.......Cutoff saw, Hammer, screwdrivers -, +, pliers, Hole/corner punch, beveler, drill/drillpress, lots of storage/work space...shelving units.
You can start, in the awards business with sublimation....... proably the least expensive of the marking process. An Epson Printer (ink jet) or color laser, a heat press and a metal shear. Punches if you want to add holes or corner designs. A Mug press would add to that start. This would give you aluminum plates, Tiles, mugs and ceramic plates.
2. What engraver is best for startup? Rotary/Laser? Is there a
suggestion on a particular model?
A Laser "what size" 25 watt minumum. 12 x 24 work surface Epiolog, Universal, Trotec, Xenetech......Chineese
Rotary Engraver 9 x 12 work surface up to 24 x 30 or larger. Diamond drag spindle or Rotray so you can do plastics and acrylics.......Newing-Hall, Vision, New Hermes, Quality- One (Quest), Xenetech
2. What engraver is best for startup? Rotary/Laser? Is there a
suggestion on a particular model?
How much do you want to invest...$$$$$ plan on 10-15K with laser or rotary if you are serious. My first rotray was 20K and laser was 25K 12 years ago. and they are both still running great. (Newing Hall 350 and Trotec Speedy) where do you see yourself in 2 years, five years, 10 years. Hobby or industrial quality......size table..
3. Where can I get supplies for trophies? Right now I have found 1 place
Simple answer.... all over the USA. Go to Westernville (Dern) and look at what is offered. I get parts from WA, CA, GA, FLA, MT, MA Since you are starting out you will be buying eaches and not alot of cases. Start small and local...... aluminum/plastic sheets come in 12x24 columns come in 18" and 48" ,
4. How does the market charge for each item they make? By the letter, by the line, by the plate.. a good mark up for a kids sport trophy is 3.5 - 4 times. So a figure on a base $1-1.5 in sells for $5-6.5 engraved. Most parents will spend 5 bucks for a trophy. but a season for trophys may only last 2-3 weeks and then 2-months before the next sport ends......... so what are you going to do to fill the fridge. Name tags, name plates, baby cups, mugs, pen sets. And then you add screen printing and embrodiery, ad specialty items.........
Hope this helps!
EDITED: 17 Mar 2007 by PENINSULATROPHY
From: Larry B (PALMETTO) [#36]
17 Mar 2007
To: Boz (CHEDDARHEAD) [#13] Unread
No truer words were ever spoken! If your not between the flow..you can't get any to stick to YOU!
From: Ray (STAMP) [#37]
17 Mar 2007
To: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#35] 17 Mar 2007
I really enjoy this forum .
Thanks to all and the hard working host. :-)
From: Jack (ALPHASUPPLY) [#38]
17 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#1] 17 Mar 2007
Greetings Bosch,
While waiting to go pick up my grandchildren, I visited here and read this thread. While I’m not sure I can significantly add to the excellent advice you have received, I thought I might offer another perspective.
I have many dozens of customers that I have helped start up, over the years, which have very similar profiles to yours.
In no particular order, here are some basics that I have shared.
1. Don’t spend your last dime on equipment. You will need money for basic inventory. You also want a bit put back for the unexpected (good and bad).
2. Consult with someone on a good beginning inventory setup, preferably not a salesperson of components.
3. In the beginning, be as miserly as possible on inventory quantities. It is very easy to be inventory rich and cash poor. To save freight and time, begin with ones that are closer to you.
4. Be aware of quantity pricing but don’t be a slave to it. For example, 48” columns sometimes only have a buck difference in broken and single case price. On a 6” column that is only a 12 cent difference.
5. Visit several trophy companies in towns larger than yours. You don’t have to tell then you want to start a business. Just visit, look and get a feel.
6. Remember that only in the dictionary does production come before selling. When you are producing you are not selling. Always go for efficiency in your operation. Your time is worth its weight in gold and it is amazing how quickly you will spend it.
7. While you are doing marketing research (talking to people) don’t always come from the angle of them buying from you. Talk about awards in general: their needs, what they liked (and didn’t like), when they need things, who else they know who needs things. Keep notes.
8. Don’t mix your personal and business income together. Grow the company from the company.
9. Keep an eye on cash flow and both eyes on profitability. A company must have both. Be very careful about giving terms to individuals, clubs, leagues, etc. Schools always pay, but often slowly. Never be reluctant to turn down an unprofitable order or accept terms that you don’t want.
10. Never be tempted to “give it away” just because you are a home based business. From day one you are a professional. Pros deserve to be paid. If you want to do charity work, volunteer at the Red Cross.
11. Don’t try to be everything to everyone. Make a plan and then work your plan. Just because Aunt Mitilda wants a mug doesn’t mean that you have a customer base to get the necessaries to do just that. Expand when it makes good business sense.
12. Have fun and make money but never forget that you always need to remember that it is a business.
Many lists may be offered on what you need to start. Mine is as basic as I could think of. Some of the numbers are approximate because of what you might want.
99.95 Easy to learn desktop publishing program
300.00 Good running, refurbished single color laser printer
239.00 Single color laser sublimation cartridge
285.00 Metal shear
395.00 Dependable heat press
175.00 10” miter saw, with a plywood blade
5.00 7/16” nut driver
Total, about $1,500 – Other items might be wanted and you can certainly spend more by getting bigger and “badder” but I have quite a few folks that don’t have much more and are producing nice revenue streams.
Oops! Got to go pick up the grandkids. Good luck on your dreams. Without them life would be much duller for all of us.
Cordially,
Jack Franklin
Alpha Supply Co.
Nashville, TN
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#39]
17 Mar 2007
To: Jack (ALPHASUPPLY) [#38] 18 Mar 2007
Thank you Jack.
We don't hear from you often, but your posts always carry words of time-tested wisdom.
To augment the advice you've given Scott, I have one word:
Color.
Color graphics are a powerful way for a business to set themselves apart from those who don't have that capability.
EDITED: 17 Mar 2007 by DGL
From: Rolf (RJB2108) [#40]
17 Mar 2007
To: bosch [#1] 18 Mar 2007
May I add my 2 cents.
+++THANK YOU.++++
I think doing a busiess out of your home makes a lot of sense. There are many reasons why I say that. I had a shop and a store front for many years.
1) You do not have the overhead that you would have if you would rent a location. I'm thinking of rent, utilities (water, sewer, electricity) employees etc, etc. etc.
2) Working out of your home will allow you to go to talk to different individuals and sell your trophies. If you would have a storefront you would be tied to your store hours. (unless you have someone else in the store while you are gone)
3) While there is not that much profit in the trophy market, by working out of your home, your profit will be higher.
4) Some of your expenses are tax deductible. When you work out of your home SOME of the improvements are tax deductible. Also, you can take half of the utilities of your taxes. (make sure you check your local laws)
5) When there is not much to do you can do your work any time of the day. ie you can work at 4am in your pajamas be finished at 8am and go fishing, or do what you like to do. (I have done that) There are many posts regarding the pros/cons of working out of your home.
As with everything there is also some bad about working out of your home. It is harder to find customers because you do not have a store front. People are sometimes more reluctant to but from someone that does not have a store. etc. But overall I firmly belive that you are on the right track. Start slow, get good prices, get the information on this forum . You have an incredible source of information right here at your fingertips and the best and the most honest friends right here at this forum. The people here will help you with EVERY question that you have. We are a family in cyberspace (until we go to Vegas) and you can count on us.
I wish you the best of lucK
Have a nice day
Rolf
EDITED: 18 Mar 2007 by DGL
From: Jer (DIAMOND) [#41]
18 Mar 2007
To: Jack (ALPHASUPPLY) [#38] 18 Mar 2007
11. Don't try to be everything to everyone. Make a plan and then work your plan. Just because Aunt Mitilda wants a mug doesn't mean that you have a customer base to get the necessaries to do just that. Expand when it makes good business sense.
Thats a good one. We try to never say no and it feels great when we pull something off that seemed impossible. I feel bad when we are not able to service a customer, but then I get a great feeling when I know I did the best thing for them by sending them to another shop for that service.
EDITED: 18 Mar 2007 by DGL
From: Jack (ALPHASUPPLY) [#42]
18 Mar 2007
To: Jer (DIAMOND) [#41] 18 Mar 2007
Indeed. Another time to feel great is when you have to "fire" a customer who is much more trouble than they are worth. I always apologized, for not being able to do things to their satisfaction, but made it up to them by sending them to a constant "low-bid" competitor. I always felt like that made them both winners.
I think the hardest three abilities for entrepreneurs to develop are:
1. Always having new goals, when the old is reached.
2. Staying on track, by using time wisely.
3. Just saying no, when they should
Jack Franklin
Nashville, TN
800-908-9916
www.alphasupply.com
www.dyesubinks.com
www.colourmagic.info
EDITED: 18 Mar 2007 by ALPHASUPPLY
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#43]
18 Mar 2007
To: Jack (ALPHASUPPLY) [#42] 18 Mar 2007
Hey Jack,
Wanna spend a week on Maui?
From: Vicky (ANDERI) [#44]
18 Mar 2007
To: Jack (ALPHASUPPLY) [#42] 18 Mar 2007
From: Mark (MAXMACHINE) [#45]
18 Mar 2007
To: ALL
I don't often chip in to these discussions, but what I have heard so far is right on target. I have been doing this for over 30 years, and it can be a tough business to succeed in. Some of the things I have learned in that span of time:
1) It is easier to succeed if you are using equipment that is relatively new technology. I had one of the very first computerized engravers in Oregon in 1981. Also, we were first with CNC vinyl cutting equipment. Those technologies allowed me (us by then) to out produce all of our competitors and offer what was then new and unusual features at a reasonable cost. Laser machines are now becoming very common, and the "wow" factor is almost gone.
2) No one is going to beat a path to your door. You have to go out and get the business. Unless you have a storefront in a good location, a lot of your personal time is going to be spent pounding pavement. If you don't like to do this, you will be in trouble. I am mostly retired, but I have one person that works for me that spends half of his time selling for me, and enjoys it. Most of the people that like to run the machinery are not very good salespeople, and the reverse is true as well.
3) Trophy work is a miserable way to try to make money. I can't count the number of times that someone has come in and said "I have a budget of $47.23, and I need 82 trophies, and I want them to look nice. Maybe something in walnut." I would rather sit at my machine and make sales samples that we give away than make trophies.
4) I am constantly amazed at the number of people that write into the various forums saying "I just bought a laser machine. What do I do next to make a lot of money?" Ideally, the business should be there before you buy anything. My first business in the engraving field was when an electrical contractor needed phenolic labels for electrical switch boxes. I said I could do it after he told me how many he needed on a monthly basis, and how much he would pay for them. Then I went out and bought a pantograph. This was in 1975. By 1981, business had increased to the point where we purchased a Dahlgren CNC engraver.
5) When you start, as they say, you had better keep your day (or night) job. You are going to make lots of expensive mistakes, and you still need to eat. In my first business, (not engraving) I worked second shift at an aircraft plant and ran my small business during the day.
6) You need to really LIKE what you are doing. If you are in it just for the money, you won't last long. I love being an engraver. At our peak, we had 23 employees. (we became a sign company that produced all kinds of signs, large and small.) Now that I am retired, I still do engraving because I like it. It makes people happy. I love hearing the "ooohs and Ahhhs" when the customer sees what we have made for him.
7) You must be innovative, always looking for new ways to use your equipment. When I had my first machine (a New Hermes IRX-K pantograph), reverse engraving was very difficult. There was only one set of reverse lettering templates available, and very expensive. I was able to solve the problem by mounting the letter holders upside down above the table, reversing the stylus, and engraving the work looking through a mirror mounted where the table was. By doing this, I could offer sub-surface lettering of any size or font using my regular fonts and logos.
8) As has been said here, you might make a deal with the fellow that is close to retirement. He can get more for his business by selling it to you, and if you include a year's training or so, you will be way ahead of the game.
I could go on like this, but don't want to be a motormouth!
Good Luck
Mark
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