Full Version: Is this true?
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#36]
3 Apr 2007
To: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#35] 3 Apr 2007
If a specific city councilman in your town wrote and submitted a proposal for a new local ordinance that would create a new baseball field for local kids out of an old piece of property already owned by the city, and the city council approved it and funded it, would you not give that specific councilman credit for being the one who initiated the creation of that park?
Without the first law mentioned that Gore sponsored the "internet" would have remained a closed network exclusively for military contractors and researchers. Without the second law that he cosponsored the "internet" as we know it today would not exist.
Yes, he did more that sponsor those laws. He went all over the country talking to the people that were using networks, and to people that would ultimately benifit from the network and he pushed the concept of a unified national network harder than any other public figure.
No he did not invent the internet, and never claimed to. He does deserve more credit than any other single person for helping to make the internet happen. The geeks that wrote the code that physically made it work didn't create the internet. Not the internet we know today. The internet is far beyond the wires that connect it and the software that makes it work. It was laws that turned a government run private network over to public non profit organizations and gave them funding and a direction to go.
From: Funkmeister (FUNKY) [#37]
3 Apr 2007
To: Laser Image (LASER_IMAGE) [#20] 3 Apr 2007
No more calls as of last night.
From: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#38]
3 Apr 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#36] 3 Apr 2007
I see your point, and I can respect it.
However, I am an absolutist (sort of :P), and I believe that words have meaning.
For example, the action verb "to pave" means just that. The correct verbs for the Council would be "to vote", "to discuss", "to brainstorm", etc.
I drive by that project every day. I've never seen the Council out there with tools and equipment. In fact, I'd bet that most members of our Council could not carry on a conversation with most of the people DOING the work. Newsflash: Mexicans are paving the street.....not the government.
Yep. But look at the words you used. "Initiated the creation", not "created".
Words have meaning.
From: GBengraver [#39]
3 Apr 2007
To: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#35] 3 Apr 2007
What you are describing is not the same thing.
Was this road paving a new process that will change the way the world drives on roads?
The internet has revolutionized the way the world communicates and relays information.
That is a lot different than a town council voting to repave a road.
G.
From: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#40]
3 Apr 2007
To: GBengraver [#39] 3 Apr 2007
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#41]
3 Apr 2007
To: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#38] 3 Apr 2007
Yes words have meaning, and he didn't say he created the internet. While you want every word to have an exact meaning, when you are in an unrehearsed interview on live TV in front of millions of viewers you don't get to plan out your wording ahead of time to pick the exact correct combinations of words. I'm sure that right afterwards he would have liked to reword some sentences so there would be no chance of people years later misinterpreting what he said.
Here is a transcript of that part of the interview:
"I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system."
He's taking credit for the initiative.
According to Webster:
initiative
Function: noun
1 : an introductory step
2 : energy or aptitude displayed in initiation of action
3 a : the right to initiate legislative action b : a procedure enabling a specified number of voters by petition to propose a law and secure its submission to the electorate or to the legislature for approval
Message 6472.42 was deleted
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#43]
3 Apr 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#41] 4 Apr 2007
Don't attempt to cloud the issue with facts. :P
From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#44]
3 Apr 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#41] 4 Apr 2007
According to Webster:
initiative
Function: noun
1 : an introductory step
2 : energy or aptitude displayed in initiation of action
3 a : the right to initiate legislative action b : a procedure enabling a specified number of voters by petition to propose a law and secure its submission to the electorate or to the legislature for approval
And therein lies the problem. Gore provided neither an introductory step nor momentum. For that you can thank DARPA and a long list of contributors that do not have the surname Gore. Broad Community and commercialization of the Internet as a result of Gore-led legislation? Nonsense....and frankly nothing more than political revisionism that was appropriately lampooned. But here's a derivative found in his opening line:
Random House Unabridged
cre·ate /kriˈeɪt/ [kree-eyt] verb, -at·ed, -at·ing, adjective
–verb (used with object)
1. to cause to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve or that is not made by ordinary processes.
2. to evolve from one's own thought or imagination, as a work of art or an invention.
I don't think so.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#45]
3 Apr 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#44] 3 Apr 2007
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#46]
3 Apr 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#41] 4 Apr 2007
Sure seems like he wants credit for it in the quote.........Its like name dropping....to make yourself sound/feel important, when in reality there is little real connection.
I'll admit I personally think Gore is a buffoon....so it will be no surprise that I would take the position I have...But if you look at his quote, he clearly assumes responsibility in his view to have taking an active role in creating the internet. Taking initiative means taking action. Voting on research on a project doesn't make you the creator in any sense of the word. Ask the scientists if the polititians are creating anything when working on stem cell research...All they do is allow the creating to take place. That's a far cry from taking responsibility for a cure from cancer if they ever find it via that research (although only a polititian would use something so wonderful for their own personal gain).
The funny thing is that the internet has almost become it's own living organism. It has grown in spite of everything and everyone involved.
From: BratDawg [#47]
3 Apr 2007
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#46] 3 Apr 2007
Even Earthlink! (devil)
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#48]
3 Apr 2007
To: BratDawg [#47] 4 Apr 2007
Yep...and AOL (who I would place in the same category you place earthlink)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaaAYVUWP0I
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#49]
3 Apr 2007
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#48] 3 Apr 2007
I remember that news story.
If it had been a live situation, I would have been looking for the hidden camera!
Have you seen the show "Boiling Point"? It's like a Candid Camera epsiode where people who are in on the gag try to exasperate an unwitting contestant through scenarios such as the You Tube clip.
If the person lasts a certain number of minutes (10?) without their head exploding, they win money. Even though I had seen the AOL segment before, I was personally getting irritated about 2.5 minutes into the exchange.
EDITED: 3 Apr 2007 by DGL
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#50]
3 Apr 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#49] 4 Apr 2007
Yes I have seen that show...
The AOL clip is a classic now......I guess they have made lots of changes to fix that particular problem....but it's a glimpse of how some companies take it too far, particularly when they get too big for their britches. I feel the same way about the cable company...Our local area has pretty much had them as the monopoly....There is new legislation to change that...and I am in total support of more competition. :) In fact I just changed from cable to U-verse (an AT&T product for internet and hundreds of channels of digital TV.) I switched yesterday, and I'm already getting superior services for my money. :)
EDITED: 3 Apr 2007 by RALLYGUY1
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#51]
4 Apr 2007
To: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#44] 5 Apr 2007
I started designing high speed electronic circuits in the early 70s. In 1976 I started writing computer programs for DEC PDP-11 computers. In the early 80s I was designing computers. Not buying a motherboard and picking a graphics card. I was designing CPUs out of discrete logic chips. In 1982 I was building high speed computers at the high energy physics lab at the Cornell Synchrotron, and used Ethernet to network a half dozen of the computers I had built. At the same time I was using ARPANET and several other networks that nobody has ever heard of to comunicate with CERN labs in Switzerland. (another high energy particle lab) We sent emails and files across those networks every day (when they worked), sharing the designs and software for the computers I was building, which they were also building copies of.
Through much of the 80s I was using USENET, a loose network of schools and individuals. What are now known as "newsgroups". In the mid to late 80s I was a regular user of BIX and several other bulletin board systems. I started using Compuserve in the mid 80s, eventually becoming a moderator on a number of their forums, including the graphics forum where the GIF image format was created.
My first browser was Mosaic, a year before Netscape existed, and 2 years before Internet Explorer. But that was already two years after Gore's legislation linked ARPANET and several other networks and opened them up to the public. (and funded development of Mosaic)
I tell you all this, not to beat my own chest, but to make it clear I am not reading about all of this in history web pages. I was there. I had nothing to do with creating the internet, but I was along for the ride from a fairly early point, and saw it evolve.
But I'm going to give up trying to get you to believe the truth. You have already decided that your hate for Gore is more important that the truth. So I'll leave it at that. I don't particularly like Gore as a person, but I am not going to deny the work he did.
EDITED: 4 Apr 2007 by DAVERJ
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#52]
4 Apr 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#51] 4 Apr 2007
From: GBengraver [#53]
4 Apr 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#51] 5 Apr 2007
From: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#54]
4 Apr 2007
To: GBengraver [#53] 5 Apr 2007
Indeed! I'm the first to admit that my opinion of his character makes me see his actions and words in a skewed fashion....like looking through a prism. There are many things that I can be very objective on, even when I have a strong opinion on the subject. Is Algore one of them? Probably not. Just have to be honest about that.
Brian and I don't seem to agree politically, but I'm in lock-step with him here. I think we need to spread the word that Dave created the Internet. From what he's said, he really is part of the REAL group that got our networking & Internet structures where they are today.
I don't know what any of that stuff was that Dave was talking about, but it sure sounded impressive!
EDITED: 4 Apr 2007 by BOBTNAILER
From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#55]
5 Apr 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#51] 5 Apr 2007
In the book there's almost a full chapter about a rather handsome guy by the name of James Docherty (...I'm guessing his wife thinks so.) In his not-so-spare time, he ran a very large new media company, the division of an even larger media conglomerate. There's a few interesting citations about his role as a pioneer in web-based content that began with the launch of CompuServe, an ongoing and very public feud with John Kennedy Jr., and (if I recall correctly) even his primary role in standardizing the commercialization of the Web including advertising and early commerce. In fact, this guy and his company was arguably the single largest source of commercial content on the Internet.
They tapped him from the magazine publishing business because he was already a pretty old hand....having started with simple programming on an IBM 1410 in 1971 and like you, on USENET in the 80's. Not surprisingly, James was on the front page of the Wall Street Journal in the 90's not once, but twice because of his (at the time) revolutionary profitability. Can you imagine, people actually paid this guy to fly around the World, speaking to groups and corporations about making money on this newfangled Internet thing?!?
He eventually went back to the magazine business, his first love, before retiring.
Yeah, I was there too....but I don't recall seeing you. And for what it's worth, I don't hate Al Gore or anyone else for that matter. But I can read.
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