Full Version: Color Laser for the future
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#1]
24 Mar 2005
To: ALL
I might be in the market for a color laser printer in the not too distant future. The justifying application will not be dye sub, but it never hurts to have the capability. I'm trying to learn the cost of that flexibility.
I was looking on the HP web site. The current model color lasers start around $500-$700 list. The only model I've seen mentioned for dye sub is the 4550, and it's been discontinued. (I don't have the specs, or know how much it sells for.) Does anyone here have any comments/recommendations?
I've read in the previous postings that inkjet dye sub is better for photos then laser. How are laser printers for normal use, non dye sub, photos?
From: UncleSteve [#2]
24 Mar 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#1] 24 Mar 2005
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3]
24 Mar 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#1] 24 Mar 2005
Ken,
Even though I have dye sublimation cartridges for my HP 4550, I use the printer, most often, for color post cards announcing vacation schedules, color letterheads, daughter's school projects, custom certificates and creating full color artwork for campaign button style namebadges.
Even with full color sublimation capability, I find that black imprint on gold or silver aluminum plates is under the heaviest demand.
Alpha Supply could tell you where to get the best buy on a HP4550, if that's the printer you settle on.
Will you need larger than 8.5 x 14 sheet sizes? If so, you'll want to investigate some of the printers that use oil fuser technology i.e., Brother, Xante and others that don't come to mind at the moment.
I believe they print to 13 x 19 sheet sizes.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#4]
24 Mar 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3] 24 Mar 2005
Thanks Uncle Steve
David, I'll try calling Alpha tomorrow. I currently don't expect to need a larger size. I'm not familiar with oil fuser technology, but I'm considering a laser for something that works with normal laser toner.
In the meantime I'm curious if anyone else has any comments to add.
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#5]
24 Mar 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#4] 25 Mar 2005
Ken,
I would highly recommend the HP 4550 for the versitility of doing both sublimation and OEM toners. The newer color printers likely have a higher resolution print quality than the 600 x 600 dpi provided by the 4550, but the color sublimation capabilities on brushed metals are tough to beat.
I produced a 100-plaque order about a month ago that had no print quality difference from the first to the last plaque. This past Saturday I completed a 50-plaque order with the same great results.
I haven't used it much with regular toners, but enjoy having the option when I need it.
From: geebeau [#6]
24 Mar 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#1] 25 Mar 2005
Definitely call Jack Franklin at Alpha Supply. You'll not find a fellow more personable and helpful. He'll recommend the right equipment to you based on your specific needs.
He did that for me and I'm really appereciative of his assistance.
Steve
Custom ID
From: sunny (SUNSHINE5555) [#7]
25 Mar 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#4] 25 Mar 2005
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#8]
25 Mar 2005
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#5] 25 Mar 2005
David,
The newer printers also print at 600x600.
Most of them have the color enhancement that they claim is equivalent to 2400x2400, but I believe the 4550 also has that.
From my initial checks it looks like the 4550's output quality is similar to the new $700 and up models. The more expensive ones give more pages per month and paper handling options.
From: trophyman (MIKEBERGER) [#9]
25 Mar 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#1] 25 Mar 2005
Iconimaging has subtoner for the Konica-Minolta color laser. I purchased the 2300DL last month after checking with Ron about availability and he advised me that it was available.
The Minolta 2300 was on sale at CompUSA for under $400.
I got mine complete with the toner (not dye sub) for $379. It has 2400DPI output. I bought ours in order to produce the political campaign button orders that we were getting along with color catalogue sheets.
Mike Berger
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#10]
25 Mar 2005
To: trophyman (MIKEBERGER) [#9] 26 Mar 2005
I ended up getting the Konica Minolta 2400W, only because the older 2300 was no longer available in this area. Same price practically in Staples. One year replacement warranty. High resolution, 2400 X 600 and twice as fast in printing. Its factory defaults are 1200 x 600. Resetting it makes a big difference in color pictures, which are fabulous. It does increase the data transfer time quite a bit, but the results are great.
I am using it for regular printing, my first color laser. So far still in the testing stages, and happy. I did have a problem with a light stripe down the near center. I emailed them and received a reply within ten minutes with the solution. A tiny piece of packing material was on the laser lens. (About half the size of this 10 point o.)
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#11]
25 Mar 2005
To: trophyman (MIKEBERGER) [#9] 26 Mar 2005
Mike,
Thanks, its nice to know there's alternatives out there.
I did a quick check on comp usa's web site. they list the toner, but no longer list the printer. I'm not familiar with the Minolta units, I know the HP's are like the energizer bunny.
From: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#12]
25 Mar 2005
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#5] 25 Mar 2005
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#13]
25 Mar 2005
To: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#12] 26 Mar 2005
John,
Laser sublimation printing to metal is done through a heat press. 400 degrees for 18 sec.
The HP4550 is fitted with dye sublimation toner to produce the (mirror-image on paper) transfer.
There IS a process which prints directly to metal, without heat, though, the metal is specially treated to accept OEM (ink jet) ink.
That process (Aluma Jet) utilizes an Epson 3000 printer, retrofitted to feed the aluminum sheet stock directly through the printer.
Unless the process has been improved, it's necessary to overcoat the plate (post-printing) with a clear Krylon spray. Without the overcoat, the image will blurr.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
EDITED: 25 Mar 2005 by DGL
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#14]
25 Mar 2005
To: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#12] 26 Mar 2005
John,
When I refer to direct-to-metal printing, I am referring to, as David says, pressing directly to metal, as opposed to pressing through the protective tape. This process produces a very sharp-edged imprint that many customers can't quite figure out how it was achieved. I like that situation, because it seems very high-tech and expensive to them.
From: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#15]
26 Mar 2005
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#14] 26 Mar 2005
How much work is involved in cleaning the plate when you press directly to the metal?
From: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#16]
26 Mar 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#13] 26 Mar 2005
Are you also implying that you can 'dye-sub' directly onto a, say an aluminum or brass plate without the special coating? The class and the reading I have done about sublimation utilized, as you said, sublimation cartridges in the printer which then is printed onto a 'transfer sheet', which is then pressed onto a specially treated plate, placque or other similarly prepared object.
From: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#17]
26 Mar 2005
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#14] 26 Mar 2005
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#18]
26 Mar 2005
To: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#15] 26 Mar 2005
Pete,
Since I started using odorless mineral spirits with a paper towel (another great tip received from this forum) the process has been very simple.
What works for me when pressing directly to metal is to press for about 25 seconds at 375 degrees, through the metal with transfer face up. I then remove the transfer immediately from the metal plate, let the plate cool for about 15-20 seconds, then clean with the mineral spirits. I try to wipe the plate in the same direct as the brush grain on the metal. Don't wait too long to clean or the residue will become harder and more stubborn to remove.
My pressing time is a bit longer than when transferring through the protective tape because I have found that it produces more solid coloring, especially in the large coverage areas and with some of the more challenging colors like gray and maroon.
My last project involved a logo made up entirely of a dark maroon and medium gray. That was a fun one, but my client was thrilled.
To find the correct colors, I went ahead and pressed onto brushed silver aluminum the Corel Draw file I had that displays 1,000 RGB colors. In the near future, I plan to do the same with the brushed gold aluminum. It makes good plain sense to have these color references available. It will save me a great deal of time and material waste in the future.
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#19]
26 Mar 2005
To: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#17] 26 Mar 2005
John,
I use Alpha Supply sublimation toners made for my HP 4550 laser printer. With this process you can heat press the printed transfer directly to the brushed metal or you can press through the protective tape that is on the metal.
Pressing through the tape eliminates any need for clean-up, although, produces a slightly lower quality edge to the printed image.
For trophy plates I will typically press through tape, but for plaques and larger plates, I go direct.
With this process you are not printing directly on the metal, you are still heat pressing a printed transfer to the metal via the two options mentioned above.
From: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#20]
26 Mar 2005
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#19] 26 Mar 2005
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