Full Version: Industrial Etching
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#1]
3 May 2005
To: ALL
Hi Gang,
I have been asked if I can do "doors" and "windows" when I mention glass etching. Is anyone doing this? If so, where can I find information about it?
Thanks
From: UCONN Dave & Lynn too (DANDL48) [#2]
3 May 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#1] 3 May 2005
Chuck,
You would need to set up a blasting room for large sized items. Your first call should be to the Building Dept of the city/county since they know what's legal or not. Either way, I would kick up your liability coverage since all it would take is one shower door to let go and it could cost you everything. You can do a light frost on tempered glass with no problem and some people say much deeper but to be on the safe side I would only frost. Best bet is getting a laminated piece of glass(one side thick and one thin) and blast away, but again it's what is legal in your town/county.
HTH,
Dave
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#3]
3 May 2005
To: UCONN Dave & Lynn too (DANDL48) [#2] 3 May 2005
Good points Dave, but I don't even know how to begin with what equipment, or masks or processes.....I need to know that before I can even decide if I want to explore this niche...but I am told there is a tremendous demand for it.....so... can you help me answer the questions about how? What equipment? Masks? etc?
Thanks
From: UCONN Dave & Lynn too (DANDL48) [#4]
3 May 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#3] 3 May 2005
Chuck,
You need a mask that delivers clean air from outside the blasting room and a compressor that delivers breathable air. Don't just use a mask in a blasting room. For large windows a plotter cannot be beat although weeding is a b&*^%. To start you might want to look up the Dobbins website http://www.etchmaster.com/ since they are probably the best known in this field and have a ton of info on the site. Note, best known doesn't automatically mean the best engravers, personally, I think Butch Young is better, but the Dobbins have much more info on their site.
You need to decide what you want to do, single or multi stage carving.
More later
Dave
From: UCONN Dave & Lynn too (DANDL48) [#5]
3 May 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#3] 3 May 2005
I've actually heard of people using their dive equipment with a long airhose for their source of clean air, but unless you own a dive compressor, the cost of air fills will kill you.
Dave
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#6]
3 May 2005
To: UCONN Dave & Lynn too (DANDL48) [#5] 3 May 2005
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#7]
3 May 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#3] 3 May 2005
Chuck,
Those who do this type of work, hand-cut vinyl masking material or use a vinyl cutter like those used for cutting banner material. This works great because the images typically don't have the small detail that are found on award crystal and glass.
There are blast cabinets that have a pass-through feature which allows you to etch the glass in sections. The challenge of using this process is maintaining the same depth of cut throughout the whole piece. I would suggest a blasting room that contains a method of reclaiming the blasting media.
Find a local company that sandblasts grave monuments and they will likely have a blasting room with a clean air supply for breathing. They may be willing to give you a tour.
EDITED: 3 May 2005 by DATAKES
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#8]
3 May 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#6] 3 May 2005
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#9]
3 May 2005
To: ALL
I don't remember where, but I saw web sites for portable sand carving. Taking the compressor and tools to the job. They advertised using it for etching the VIN in car windows or doing windows that won't be coming out/off; say a store front. I think they taped on some clear plastic for containment.
That's what I though he was originally asking about. Has anyone seen or hear of this method?
From: Geezer (ERNIE) [#10]
3 May 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#1] 3 May 2005
You can do "on site" blasting with the right equipment (portable compressor and siphon blaster and premade stencils ).
This can be very profitable and doesn't require a room or expensive setup.
contact Norm Dobbins www.etchmaster.com
or do a search for Pab Blasters
Also check some of the trade journals for past articles on blasting.
Ernie
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#11]
3 May 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#1] 3 May 2005
There is an easier way to etch doors and windows that is used far more than actual blasting and that is to use etch vinyl , IE vinyl that is cut an weeded and applied to glass that makes it look like it was sandblasted. You don't get the greasy fingermark effects that way (etched glass is very difficult to clean if fingermarked) and dont have to build huge blasting cabinets and can do it easily on site without item removal and mess. All you need is a vinyl cutter or to outsource the cutting work.
You can do abolutely huge stuff like this and mistakes don't cost a new glass panel.
Other than that , to do doors etc is a mission and you still have to cut the vinyl masks and apply anyway so you would still need the cutter.
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#12]
3 May 2005
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#11] 3 May 2005
From: Rallyguy [#13]
3 May 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#12] 4 May 2005
Hi Ken,
We do the same thing with screen printing....there is a flattening powder that can be added to an enamel clear to make it look matt....if mixed properly it can look just like an etched finish....it even can feel like it with the mild texture that it adds.
Brian G.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#14]
3 May 2005
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#11] 3 May 2005
Rodney,
Do you have or know of an American supplier of that product?
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#15]
3 May 2005
To: Geezer (ERNIE) [#10] 4 May 2005
Ernie,
Thank you for the tid bit on onsite blasting.....however, what about the "fallout" or sand that is left after and during the etch. Clean up would be a bear wouldn't it?
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#16]
3 May 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#8] 4 May 2005
Ken, you said,
I know you were joking, but its important people understand there is a big difference between the compressors we might have and the ones used for scuba tanks. (Would you put food in your mouth after it was in your compressor?)
And of course the answer is no, but I have eaten a banana under 40 feet of water.... :)
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#17]
3 May 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#14] 3 May 2005
Hiya Chuck
Just about any small hole in the wall vinyl or signmaking supplier should have it , it's used extensively. Called Sandblast vinyl or window etch vinyl. there are different grades from cheap and nasty to mondo expensive cast polymeric (vinyl that will be able to be streched over a compound curve)
3m , avery , grafitak etc all make versions of it.
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#18]
4 May 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#15] 4 May 2005
Chuck,
On-site blasting does have its own special requirements because of all the dust that is created.
I have seen blasting done in an office environment where they built a tent enclosure to contain most of the dust.
If you are serious about this, I would recommend a system from Glastar made specifically for dust-free, on-site sandblasting. The blaster, pictured in the attachment, uses a high volume vacuum return to recapture the dust and abrasive and to recycle the usable abrasive through the blaster continuously.
The blasting section of the Glastar unit looks like a brush attachment that you would find on a vacuum. The abrasive media is released and reclaimed within the brush. I would argue that it probably is not 100% dust-free.
This Glastar blaster is a siphon system, so it requires a substantial amount of air to operate continuously for long periods of time. If your existing compressor is not adequate, or if it is not portable, renting a larger compressor could be a viable, low-cost option for you to get into on-site blasting.
Many people doing on-site blasting use 2 hp, 110v compressors even though these compressors do not provide enough air to blast for long periods of time. They simply modify their blasting technique to alternate short periods of cutting out the resist with short periods of blasting, instead of doing all the cutting first and then all of the blasting. Some people use two 2 hp compressors to provide a longer period of blasting time before running out of air.
Some of the above information has been taken verbatim from the Glastar website.
EDITED: 7 Jun 2010 by DATAKES
From: Geezer (ERNIE) [#19]
4 May 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#15] 4 May 2005
Cleanup is very minimal. About what you'd have from eating a dozen soda crackers. That's the beauty of the siphon blaster.
The construction of a siphon blaster is such that it projects the blast media and also sucks it and the glass shards up at the same time.
You should probably get the video that Norm Dobbins has showing the actual use of a siphon blaster to see just what happens.
Be advised though that the siphon blaster will not allow deep penetration or stage blasting of the glass. However, since most on site work is with tempered glass you won't be trying for depth.
Ernie