Full Version: Snake oil
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#12]
7 Jun 2005
To: Michael [#10] 7 Jun 2005
Hi Mike,
Been a while :)
.....While I understand your frusteration, I can also empathize with someone that sells equipment as involved as laser engraving equipment. If I was a business selling this equipment, it may be worth having a few prerequisite questions to seperate the men from the boys so to speak. We all know how many pretenders are out there, and the fact that you feel snubbed to the point that you won't give simple business address or phone number information makes you look less like a real customer and more like someone that is bs-ing your way through their process. It may just be a way for them to evaluate the seriousness of the prospective client.
I do understand your frusteration in just getting simple pricing.......No one wants to jump through unnessesary hoops, but I do feel that I can understand why they would want to pre-qualify their customers when there is so much work in building a system for a customer.
I am not trying to argue the point of requiring what they do, just trying to find a meaningful explanation that they might have other than that they are "snake oyl salesmen" :)
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#13]
7 Jun 2005
To: ALL
WOW! Be thankful for the Constitution. Yea Free Speech......
Micheal, having not been there, when you were inquiring about pricing, I have no way of knowing how to respond, except that maybe you just need to work with those dealers that DID answer your questions.
Personally, I think it is important that questions be asked on both sides, like Dee said, perhaps the sales rep motivation WAS to find out more to make a better recommendation, or possibly assess your needs to give you the best VALUE. Value is very different from PRICE. The best price is not always the best value, and ond of the things that MUST be considered, ( and I learned this that hard way) is that AFTER SALE SUPPORT MUST be taken into consideration when talking value. When I bought my machine I THOUGHT was getting good value, until after the fact I found out I could not get some of the support I felt was necessary to MY success.
With all of that said, you have answered your own questions, and really simplified the whole issue. It is as simple as NOT dealing with those that will not answer your questions, or keeping their appointments.
Just my two cents..... want change?
From: Peter [#14]
7 Jun 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#13] 7 Jun 2005
Price is very, very important....
Nothing is more important than after sales service...
believe me in this industry....Nothing is more important..
so if you can buy a Universal or an epilog or a laserpro/pinnacle or other brands.......the 3 I mentioned are all great machines.
the difference is the same as the mid range Chev/ Ford/ Chrysler they all are basically the same...it comes down to personal preferance .
And what the after sales service is like..
The biggest variable is, the lasers will provide you with massive income and a requirement to service your clients...the problem occurs, not when you made a deal and saved $ 3,000, but when you lose $ 15,000 when your machine breaks down and the after sales service is non existant.
Buy on service
regards
Peter
From: UncleSteve [#15]
7 Jun 2005
To: Michael [#9] 7 Jun 2005
From: Michael [#16]
7 Jun 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#13] 7 Jun 2005
That's my intent. I just wanted to vent. It is more than disapointing that the majority of the people I've contacted take the stance that they know what I need and refuse to answer a simple question until I agree with them.
Value cannot be separated from price.
There is no free lunch.
Go figure.
From: Michael [#17]
7 Jun 2005
To: UncleSteve [#15] 8 Jun 2005
They have my name and email address.
What, they are going to charge me more if I want the thing for non business use?
From: Michael [#18]
7 Jun 2005
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#11] 7 Jun 2005
By your own research you have proven there is more than one definition.
Why do YOU choose to infer the guy is dishonest?
Go figger.
EDITED: 7 Jun 2005 by MICHAEL
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#19]
7 Jun 2005
To: ALL
EDITED: 7 Jun 2005 by HARVEY-ONLY
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#20]
7 Jun 2005
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#19] 7 Jun 2005
Then this message is no longer necessary either.......
Does anybody REALLY know what time it is?
EDITED: 7 Jun 2005 by C_BURKE
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#21]
7 Jun 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#20] 7 Jun 2005
Chuck,
For you, it's time to head to the beach.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#22]
7 Jun 2005
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#21] 7 Jun 2005
From: basehorawards [#23]
8 Jun 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#22] 8 Jun 2005
When you go to the beach do you forward your phone to a cell phone or just let the answering machine take messages?
If you forward to the cell how do customers take to the sounds of the beach in the background?
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#24]
8 Jun 2005
To: basehorawards [#23] 8 Jun 2005
James,
All joking aside, the beach is a morning thing before business hours.
From: basehorawards [#25]
8 Jun 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#24] 8 Jun 2005
Well that's too bad.
I was wondering because I am a one man shop and have 11 and 13 year old boys who want to go to the pool. Mom works at a "Real" job with a regular paycheck so the boys are home for the summer with me. I do forward the phone to the cell when I have to go out on sales calls and such but was wondering about whether to do so when I take them to the pool.
From: Sei (SEIMA) [#26]
8 Jun 2005
To: basehorawards [#25] 8 Jun 2005
Well, is it work time, or is it your kids' time?
Sei
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#27]
8 Jun 2005
To: basehorawards [#25] 8 Jun 2005
James
If I were in your position, I would most certainly do that forward to my cell if it meant having some quality time with my boys.. I have a VERY FIRM belief in FAMILY FIRST..... without your family none of the rest of it matters......to ME missing time with you boys at the pool is far worse than any time missed working....life is short......
Sooo... were I in your shoes, I would DEFINITELY go to the pool (or beach) and forward to my cell.
Just my two cents worth. Want Change?
EDITED: 8 Jun 2005 by C_BURKE
From: basehorawards [#28]
8 Jun 2005
To: Sei (SEIMA) [#26] 8 Jun 2005
Sei,
I would like for it to be both. After regular business hours is when everybody shows up at the pool and it is too crowded to have any fun when you are used to the wide open spaces of the country where we live.
I will take trade magazines or manuals with me and I usually have catalogues and such in the truck or car so I can answer questions. I was just wondering if anyone had experience with the situation.
From: basehorawards [#29]
8 Jun 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#27] 8 Jun 2005
Chuck,
Family is why I am in this mess (opps I mean business). My former employer was a firm believer that the company came first. I was told I was not a team player because I kept my mornings, evenings and weekends to my family. I would work from 8 - 5 because that is what I was being paid to do. Travelled when it was required be he wanted me to come in early, stay late and work Saturdays - for free. Wouldn't you hate to be his kids? Part of the beauty of working out of a building on my property is that I can slip out here when the boys are reading or playing computer games. I do not have the 1 hour commute to and from the office. I can work 10 hour days here in the same time I was gone from home working for my former employer.
I will be forwarding the cell and, like I told Sei, taking trade pubs and stuff with me. Once we get to the pool they leave me on the chaise and run and play in the water.
An hour at the pool for them is heaven and I know that makes the time worth every second.
I guess I will see how the customers react and answer or not depending on who it is. I have voicemail on the cell too.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#30]
8 Jun 2005
To: basehorawards [#29] 8 Jun 2005
James,
I don't know your situation, but it hardly seems a mess. Self employed? Shop on your property? Time with you kids? How cool is that. Personally I think your former employer had his head so far up his butt he was looking out his nostrils.
Anyway, when you are the pool, put the trade rags down, let your voice mail do it's thing, get IN the pool, cool off and play with you boys, ( unless they are playing with girls of course). It will make you feel better too.
How does it work for anyone else? It doesn't matter as long as it works for you. Pretty soon, you boys will not want to go to the pool with their old man....so DO IT!!!!
In my previous life, I used to worry about work all the time, when we did not have any I would go pound the pavement, my wife, who ran the business with me would go to, griping all the way, saying we should enjoy the time off, but Noooooooooooooo I had to go get more work...oh for the times we could have had. Another friend of mine, a doctor, always told himself he would make time to play golf when he retired...well he is retired, but hurt his back and can't play golf..... today, right now, this minute is ALL we have...... lets go swimming!!!!!
Again, just my two cents.
EDITED: 8 Jun 2005 by C_BURKE
From: basehorawards [#31]
8 Jun 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#30] 8 Jun 2005
Chuck,
Two things I don't do in public: sing and go around without a shirt.
And the world is a better place for it. :-)
Thanks for your kind words and all the advise you have given and asked for. We all have such a great opportunity to learn from the questions of others.
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