Full Version: Geo. Knight DK20S - Watch Your Fingers
From: UCONN Dave & Lynn too (DANDL48) [#2]
27 Jun 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1] 27 Jun 2005
Ouch is correct.
On a positive note the various shades of colors on and around your nail would probably be in great demand as a nail polish.
(devil)
Dave
Off topic, do you still have Earthlink? If so, can you access you email today? We cannot.
EDITED: 27 Jun 2005 by DANDL48
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#3]
27 Jun 2005
To: UCONN Dave & Lynn too (DANDL48) [#2] 27 Jun 2005
Dave,
I hate to hear that. I won the lottery and offered you half via e-mail, but you had to respond by noon CST.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#4]
27 Jun 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1] 27 Jun 2005
I don't see a pad on the center section of the piece of equipment. It seems that simple logic would have you hold it where the handle pads are.
Not accusing you of anything other than misusing the heat press.....I guess the question is then also....does the manufacture need to warn you of other things such as..."Do not press any appendages with this heat press"?
A glance at the picture makes it pretty clear that the handles are on the sides, not the center. Why must a manufacturer spell out the obvious to avoid litigation?
Brian Genrich
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#5]
27 Jun 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1] 27 Jun 2005
David,
This has not happened to me, but I can tell you that even holding the handles and opening the press, I have racked the knuckles on my thumbs more than a few times on the edge of the same housing you are mentioning. I have never drawn much blood, but have felt your pain.
One learns to hold the rubber grips towards the outside after doing this a few times.
EDITED: 27 Jun 2005 by DATAKES
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#6]
27 Jun 2005
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#4] 27 Jun 2005
Brian,
A manufacturer is free to do as they please. Personally, if I were Geo. Knight, I'd close every possible gap that may lead to litigation.
This is definitely one of those gaps.
David Takes' post says, even with "proper" use of the press, his fingers have been nipped.
If there's a way to misuse a piece of equipment, wouldn't "simple logic" dictate the manufacturer offer a simple warning, as due diligence?
Last time I checked, self-adhesive labels cost less than legal fees.
As for myself, there will never be a replay of that mishap. Offering me up as a contender for a Darwin award won't necessarily prevent such a personal injury from happening to another user of this piece of equipment.
Consider this; aside from the personal injury risk, what about the constant banging of the housing in close proximity to the digital readout? Can that be a good thing?
Let's face it! It's an inherently bad design.
EDITED: 27 Jun 2005 by DGL
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#7]
27 Jun 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#6] 27 Jun 2005
Hi David,
If you were to litigate, your best bet would be against those that hosted the show, not the manufacturer. OSHA requires people to be trained properly on equipment like you were using. You obviously did not read the instruction manual or were not trained on how to use the piece of equipment properly.
Brian Genrich
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#8]
27 Jun 2005
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#7] 27 Jun 2005
Brian,
How many brands of cars have you driven?
Did you read all the instruction manuals before pulling away from the curb? Did you know what function the steering wheel provided?
I'm no stranger to heat presses. Hotronix, Insta, Hix, to mention a few.
No special instruction necessary.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#9]
27 Jun 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#8] 27 Jun 2005
Yes I actually did.
Your ego is what gave you your injury, not the heat press.
From: UCONN Dave & Lynn too (DANDL48) [#10]
27 Jun 2005
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#9] 27 Jun 2005
So when you drive a car for the first time, be it a demo, a car rental, a loaner from the mechanic or you are borrowing a friends car you sit there reading the 100 + page manual before you drive away?
I think not!
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#11]
27 Jun 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1] 27 Jun 2005
David,
In the past I worked for a company that made medical devices. The FDA would call that a "use error", and consider it a design flaw.
Does not matter if its obvious.
Does not matter if there is a large warning sticker or other documentation not to do it.
If people do it, its a design flaw.
Verify and validate are two different steps in testing a product. Verify confirms that it meets the design requirements. Validation checks how it is actually used.
A common case study: One company made a machine for use in hospitals by trained staff. It had a filter that required changing. It was well documented when the filter should be changed, including labels on the device itself. If it was not changed an alarm would sound when it became blocked, a condition dangerous for the patient. (I believe the machine was considered life support.) Some operators used the alarm as the filter change signal. The company had to redesign it.
Looking at the picture, you posted, the potential for this problem could easily be eliminated by redesigning the handle.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#12]
27 Jun 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#11] 27 Jun 2005
EDITED: 27 Jun 2005 by RALLYGUY1
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#13]
27 Jun 2005
To: UCONN Dave & Lynn too (DANDL48) [#10] 27 Jun 2005
Nope, just talking about cars I bought or owned. I don't borrow them, nor have I had to get a loaner yet.
Just because you are a press operator, you can't assume that every printer operates the same.
the same goes for most all equipment, especially equipment that has a clearly different look than traditional equipment that you have used in the past.
It makes sense to at minimum size up the equipment and get a mechanical understanding of the piece of equipment. In this instance I would say it would be to find and use the handles that are supplied.
EDITED: 27 Jun 2005 by RALLYGUY1
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#14]
27 Jun 2005
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#9] 27 Jun 2005
Brian,
You'll never be hired as a valet parking attendant :-)
My ego caused the accident? Interesting perception.
How so?
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#15]
27 Jun 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#14] 27 Jun 2005
Your assumption that you have plenty of experience with heat presses, and that no further training or education would be necessary. It clearly was and didn't take place. Although I guess "the pinch" should be an education in itself.
I bet you don't do it twice :)
Hey! Stop reading while I'm re-writing!!! :)
EDITED: 27 Jun 2005 by RALLYGUY1
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16]
27 Jun 2005
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#15] 27 Jun 2005
OK Brian,
I can see you're determined to shoot the messenger.
I do have plenty of experience with heat presses, and now one very painful experience, with a poorly-designed machine, to add to that experience.
Just trying to provide a non-hypothetical hazard warning to current and potential users of this heat press, which is arguably, one of the most heavily-promoted models in the industry.
From: Tamara [#17]
27 Jun 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#14] 27 Jun 2005
Ummmm....Dave?
Not to sound facetious, but uh, my Geo Knight press gets up to say 500 degrees or so if I want it to, and uh...there doesn't seem to be a single warning label anywhere mentioning there is a chance I could suffer second or third degree burns if I accidentally bump into the platen.
I mean, if you are going to gear yourself up for a big crusade, why not go for the serious stuff like melting flesh? I have the scars to prove it - let me know if you need some photos for the judge ;-)
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#18]
27 Jun 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#14] 27 Jun 2005
David,
My daughter has her arm in a cast for another couple of weeks. The natural way for her to operate this press would be by lifting in the center area with one hand. If you try lifting on either side of the handle by itself, it torques the whole mechanism. Be this a unique situation, there are many scenarios like this that will require a one-hand operation. I don't recall the manual saying anything about a two-hand requirement, but I could be wrong.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#19]
27 Jun 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16] 27 Jun 2005
David,
I don't even own a gun.
My point is that the messanger probably could have been alot more careful and taken responsibility for his actions, instead of blame it on the equipment he is using.
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#20]
27 Jun 2005
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#12] 27 Jun 2005
You are correct, there is no chance of the FDA policing heat presses. It's a matter of good vs. poor design. Why does an item have to be medical or a child's toy to require good design? How about doing something because its the right thing to do, not because its required. The people on this forum take pride in their work, shouldn't we expect that of our suppliers?
This is not the first problem I've seen posted regarding Geo Knight equipment. They seem to have a track record of not caring about customer safety, and ignoring issues brought to their attention.
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#21]
27 Jun 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1] 27 Jun 2005
David...first, not all of the model in question have the handle hitting the metal top above the digital readout...mine, as I told you earlier, does not. I will admit that if one was using the press differently than it was intended to be used, would get a finger or two pinched, mine does not have enough clearance for fingers.
One should not assume that because they have operated a number of different presses that they automatically have the experience or skill to operate all.
As for a warning sticker, does your oven come with one warning to use pot holders when removing pans from the oven, do table saw blades come with a warning that using your hand to stop them is a bad idea (and yes, I know a woodworker that routinely uses his finger on the side of the blade to do just that)??
I think this is just a contuation of the attack on Geo Knight, and your inherant need for controversy. After all, what in the world gets more posting than negative press, be it about our customers or our equipment.
Sheesh, if I whined to the forum everytime I got a injury from a piece of equipment that I used in a fashion other than it was designed for, I would never get anything done.
I did not infer that you were not taking the bruised finger like a man, but I will state that you should man up and admit that you used the press differently than it was designed to be used and that you yourself are responsible for the damage done.
Doug
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