Full Version: Geo. Knight DK20S - Watch Your Fingers
From: UncleSteve [#45]
28 Jun 2005
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#43] 28 Jun 2005
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#46]
28 Jun 2005
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#43] 28 Jun 2005
Brian,
If you're a realist, you'll realize, manufacturers, especially in this day and age, are at a higher risk than ever, to people suing over anything/everything at the drop of a hat.
I'm not one of those people, and Aaron Knight appreciated my down-to-earth notification of an unforseen safety problem with the heat press.
In your view, there was no benefit to my contacting Geo. Knight - Just some whiney dufus running up the price of heat presses.
If everyone latched onto that philosophy, we'd bring back the exploding Pinto and the faulty Firestone tires.
Maybe we should just repeal the Child Labor laws?
That would save a LOT of money.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#47]
28 Jun 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#46] 28 Jun 2005
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#48]
28 Jun 2005
To: ALL
All,
There appears to be some bitterness creeping into this discussion. Please don't let that happen.
While I do not know David L that well, I have a "sense" about him. That sense tells me he is passionate in everything he does. I can relate to that. So am I.
Sometimes the intent of a passionate person does not come across in the light in which it was intended. I think from my perspective, that David's intent ( and I could be wrong) was not to "blast" GeoKnight but to point that the current design of their machine allows for this type of operator injury. However reading the initial post would lead one to believe otherwise.
David, you could have stated your case a little less vehemently..... something along the lines of " Hey gang, I was using a GeoKnight heat press and when I opened it with one hand I smashed my finger. Watch out this could happen to you. In the meantime I'm going to point this out to Aaron Knight and suggest a design change"...... that would have achieved the same thing..... which I believe was your original intent.
In the same breath I must point out that you need to take some personal responibility for your injury, ( in my opinion). You had said in your post........ "When I was satisfied with the tension, I heaved the lever to its full-open position." I have to ask, is it REALLY necessary to HEAVE the lever? If it is, THAT is the design flaw.
As has been pointed out, the machine is not designed for one handed operation. However I can understand that since you are used to using one that is designed for that, that it was simply habit that caused you to "heave" the press open. I am sure that your exhuberance to share your knowledge also contributed to this unfortunate accident, however, the fault does not lie with GeoKnight.
The postive outcome of this is that you "discovered" a reason for a change in design that would improve their product.... and told them about it. I congratulate you for this.
Roaming off topic (maybe), as has been mentioned before, in America the people have become VERY litigous. This is exaserbated by attorney's and insurance companies..... and WE THE PEOPLE have come to expect "The Government" ( Hey wait! That is supposed to be US! We the People) to protect us from EVERYTHING!!!. Well that is an unrealistic expectation. It is, in my opinion up to each individual in America to accept responsibility for their actions. However, common sense in America is just not so common anymore.
The other day I saw a young man on a motorcycle going down the road. He was not wearing a helmet. He was doing about 70 mph, he was standing up on the pegs of his motorcycle, and had the motorcycle up on the back wheel doing a wheely. If he had crashed he would have most certainly been killed. Whose fault was it? Who would have been blamed? The county, the highway engineers, the fellow that made the spoke nipples, the tire manufacturer......the list could go on. The point is that in our society today his family would have tried to blame any body but the rider, although the reality is that he was NOT operating the machine within the design guidlines and had he died it would have been HIS fault
That is what I think the case is here. David, even though David Takes has said he has busted his knuckles a few times, the machine was not designed to be opened with one hand.
I applaud your enthusiasm, your knowledge, your expertise and your sincere caring about this industry and your desire to help other people and improve the state of the art, but my friend, you should have used two hands.
I apologize for such a long post.
My two cents. Want change?
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#49]
28 Jun 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#48] 28 Jun 2005
Chuck,
Thank you for your input. Aaron Knight pointed out, the machine was designed for two-hand operation.
He also felt a modification is in order to avoid a repeat of my accident by anyone else.
That's where he left it, and that's where I'll leave it :-)
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#50]
28 Jun 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#49] 29 Jun 2005
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From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#56]
29 Jun 2005
To: ALL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#57]
11 Mar 2006
To: ALL
While at ARA Las Vegas, I saw two Knight DK20S heat presses in close proximity to one another.
Naturally, after my experience with this model and a claim by Aaron Knight that new runs of the press will have adequate finger clearance, (between the mid-handle area and the top of the press housing), I had to check the two presses out.
Sure enough, absolutely zero clearance between the handle and the housing, on either machine. I mentioned my "painful" experience to a person in the booth, who responded, "Oh yeah! I caught my thumb in there the other day!"
Maybe the new versions of the press haven't been built, or just maybe, lip service is the ongoing plan for the DK20S program.
My advice remains the same. Watch your fingers!
EDITED: 11 Mar 2006 by DGL
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#58]
11 Mar 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#57] 12 Mar 2006
And know your press......... :)
Brian
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#59]
12 Mar 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#58] 12 Mar 2006
Brian,
Exactly right.
Sadly, what I'm hearing, through discussions with people who have been "nipped" is that they're learning about this design flaw, the hard way, one person at a time.
Shouldn't be part of the learning curve, and isn't, with any other model of heat press I know of.
EDITED: 12 Mar 2006 by DGL
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#60]
12 Mar 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#59] 12 Mar 2006
Hi David,
I honestly didn't feel that this subject needed to be breached again......but after reading the whole thread over again....I still feel as if the real responsibility lies with you. I know you feel different and felt that change should be propagated by your experience.....More power to you.
I still think you have to look at it like the crushed finger in the car door.....Yes someone "could" sue over it.....but just cause you "can" doesn't make it the right thing to do. Did you ever write a letter to the automobile company that you hurt your finger with? If not, why not? There is no difference in the situations. Both times an accident occurred because the operation of a product was outside the norm. Yet the hazard still existed....and will continue to exist...Car doors can and will still crush fingers.
After all this time....my opinion about this subject hasn't been swayed....I still feel like your current line of thinking is basically dumbing down products and people to the lowest common denominator, instead of having people be responsible for the way they use their equipment.
You could just as easily blame the vendor for a burn, cut, or any abrasion that would/could be obtained with their equipment.
Just as any mechanic can get bloodied knuckles when they work on a car, working with your hands has it's own set of hazardous....Most of which are in your own control. If you've ever cut yourself with a knife or razor....(and most people have)...You wouldn't write the vendor would you? You would say ouch....get a bandaid, and move on with life all the wiser no?
Before you or anyone else comments on this post....Please re-read this whole thread. I don't feel that it's necessary to re-live the situation every 6 months....Nor is it worth while re-arguing something that we just don't see eye to eye on.....but with all of the posts that you have lodged against this piece of equipment....There really should be a balanced view from the other side. Hopefully this is sufficient. I have no interest in arguing with you about it. We clearly have different views, but I think the forum membership needs to see both sides....Otherwise People just see your repetitive message, and never get to see the messages that counter your opinion.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#61]
12 Mar 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#60] 12 Mar 2006
Brian,
If there were only one model of an automobile with the capability to crush a person's fingers, shouldn't that model be pointed out?
It's not something that would be pointed out by the manufacturer, or those involved in selling the automobile.
If it's a known design flaw, people deserve to be informed.
Even though common sense dictates that a person should keep their fingers away from a 400 deree heat platen, why do some heat press manufacturers place a label on their equipment stating so?
EDITED: 12 Mar 2006 by DGL
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#62]
12 Mar 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#61] 12 Mar 2006
Any press can pinch a finger depending on where you put it when in use....The car door argument is essentially the same. It is a common pinch point that we all seem to overcome. Still one can argue that it is still possible to pinch a finger when closing a car door.....What it comes down to is people educate themselves on how not to pinch their fingers in a car door. They do not require the manufacturer to change the design.
Any equipment with any moving parts has an inherent pinch risk. I suggest that any press is capable of pinching if fingers aren't used in the appropriate positions. Anyone that works on a car is familiar with these risks as even using a wrench can risk pinching a finger, or skinning a knuckle. I really see using a press in the way it is intended, as less risky than changing your own oil (if anyone even does that anymore).
Your misuse and bad experience from this misuse should not reflect on the press in my opinion. You stated in the first post that you
The bottom line is this....if you had used the press as it is designed, you wouldn't have been injured.
From: UncleSteve [#63]
12 Mar 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#60] 12 Mar 2006
While I agree the whole thing doesn't have to be rehashed, what I am taking from this is that the company's attitude is same old, same old.
IF they said they were going to address the design, whether good, bad or ugly, and they haven't even put a warning label rather than change the unit, it is the same as the wiring harness situation.
"It never happened and if it did happen it wasn't our fault and if it was our fault we didn't know about it and if we did know it wasn't serious enough to correct and nobody ever complained in the past. YOU ARE THE FIRST TO TELL US!"
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#64]
12 Mar 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#62] 12 Mar 2006
Brian,
If there is such a thing as misuse of a piece of equipment, shouldn't such misuse be divulged in the operator's manual, or at bare minimum, by a very inexpensive label at the top of the DK20S housing?
Why is it that Knight continues to deceive the buying public, in their literature, with pictures of the DK20S, shown (supposedly, in a full-open postion) with the handle of the press in a horizontal position, with ample finger clearance, when, in fact, the handles of many of these presses come in direct contact with the upper part of the housing?
Or worse yet, with people's fingers providing the only space between the two components?
EDITED: 12 Mar 2006 by DGL
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