Full Version: Recession Ahead?
From: laserman (MIKEMAC) [#101]
30 Aug 2005
To: Cindy (CINDYM) [#99] 30 Aug 2005
Cindy,
If everyone stopped buying GAS for just One day it would make a serious dent in there pocket books!!!
You are doing the right thing! We are all to dependent on government regulated fuel sources.
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#102]
30 Aug 2005
To: Cindy (CINDYM) [#99] 30 Aug 2005
Cindy,
It can't be the same thing I had read about years ago. The thing I'm referring to is completely under water. Think of an under water windmill powered by the currents that don't change/move. Though powerful, the blades were so big and slow the fish would/could swim right by them. (Maybe Oregon is using the things that float up and down on the waves?)
I'm not familiar with the Oregon project. The people objecting, I wonder what alternative they would prefer; somehow I doubt anyone has asked. Sometimes the best way to handle the objectors is to include them in on the process. But it must be done early enough in the process to seriously evaluate their positions. When all the information is truly on the table they might agree, or maybe a different approach is better. - It would be an interesting approach, to include (the interested) people in on the decisions that effect them. There are always trade-offs, in all decisions.
Cars get more efficient, gas tanks get smaller; Prices go up. Prior to this spike, I was paying the same per tank as I did with my first car. Less gas, same distance. At this point I'm hoping my car holds out until I have the money for a new one. Me and my wife have very different needs. Earlier this year she bought a Honda CR-V; I liked the Toyota Prius.
From: Cindy (CINDYM) [#103]
30 Aug 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#102] 30 Aug 2005
In the newspaper article about this a couple of months ago, it appears the project will be a mile out and everything will be below the ocean surface, so eye pollution is minimal. They will have a boat or station built out there, but it will be small. You might be able to find out more at Oregon State University's website. It sounded very interesting.
Cindy
From: UCONN Dave & Lynn too (DANDL48) [#104]
30 Aug 2005
To: laserman (MIKEMAC) [#101] 30 Aug 2005
Sorry, but that won't work since twice as many people would buy gas the following day. Now, if they didn't drive their car for a day, that could work but than again they might have twice the errands to run the day after.
Dave
From: laserman (MIKEMAC) [#105]
30 Aug 2005
To: UCONN Dave & Lynn too (DANDL48) [#104] 30 Aug 2005
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#106]
30 Aug 2005
To: laserman (MIKEMAC) [#105] 30 Aug 2005
Somewhere between here and there, other alternatives will become feasible/economical. The two questions are: at what price? and after ramping up production, what could it drop to?
From: basehorawards [#107]
30 Aug 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#106] 30 Aug 2005
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#108]
30 Aug 2005
To: basehorawards [#107] 30 Aug 2005
Before even looking at the price tag, I'd ask about byproducts and where all the coal would come from. If the break even is really $30/barrel, I suspect others are also evaluating the option.
I don't know the details, but I've read that some of the bio-fuels made from farmed crops can be mixed in with gas, up to 20-30%, for use in existing cars. (It bothers me that the government is paying farmers to plow under crops. Use the money to help explore other markets/uses. Using biodegradable packing material made from corn is much better for the country then the stuff made from oil.) Subsidize development for the future, don't pay people to not work.
The government should help those who can't take care of themselves, not those who won't. And when possible the same money should be used to help two or more groups at once. (One group needs help, another work, put them together.) The best solutions minimize or eliminate the problems that created them.
From: laserman (MIKEMAC) [#109]
30 Aug 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#108] 30 Aug 2005
Ken,
You are so right, The big thing that bothers me is the government knows the alternative sources. But they won't do anything about it because this is a huge paycheck toward there deficit. If everyone is going to continue to buy the gas at the price they control then they will continue to sell it and probably keep raising the prices until someone says enough is enough.
From: basehorawards [#110]
30 Aug 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#108] 30 Aug 2005
Ken,
Not sure about the byproducts but Montana (Wyoming?) has more coal than anywhere in the world. The estimate I read said they could supply all our gasoline for something like 30 years.
You and I are on the same page on paying farmers not to grow. I come from a long long line of farmers. That was the one thing my dad and I could never come eye to eye on and had to give up trying. His argument was that it kept the land available for farming rather than it being sold off for development.
We have 10% ethanol available here in Kansas. Right now it is 2 cents less than regular unleaded. I would love to use it and always said I would if it was cheaper than regular. The problem is our gas mileage goes down around 10% on the highway using the ethanol blend so at 2 cents less it is more expensive. It would have to be more than 10% cheaper than regular before I would consider using it. Then there are older vehicles that can not run on ethanol. I am not sure my 11 year old truck (and know that my 15 year old car won't) run right with it.
The other problem is the reason it is cheaper is because there is a 50cent subsidy on ethanol production.
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#111]
30 Aug 2005
To: basehorawards [#110] 31 Aug 2005
The 50 cent subsidy doesn't bother me at this point. (economy of scale, foreign dependence, keeping money out of anti-USA pockets, ongoing development.)
What does concern me is your experience of 10% reduced mileage for a 10% mixture. (For 90% gas you get 90% of the miles.) That makes it sound like a useless filler taking up tank space. The end result is no gain to help reduce oil dependency.
***
If the purpose of government aid is to subsidize the farmers so they don't need to sell the land, instead of paying farmers for not producing and sending money to poor countries, Buy the food at below market value and send it. It gives income for the land, but maintains incentive for market based alternatives. It's more difficult to divert food from the starving to a swiss bank account.
From: basehorawards [#112]
31 Aug 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#111] 31 Aug 2005
"If the purpose of government aid is to subsidize the farmers so they don't need to sell the land, instead of paying farmers for not producing and sending money to poor countries, Buy the food at below market value and send it. It gives income for the land, but maintains incentive for market based alternatives. It's more difficult to divert food from the starving to a swiss bank account."
You got that right baby!
From: UncleSteve [#113]
31 Aug 2005
To: basehorawards [#112] 31 Aug 2005
From: Liberty [#114]
1 Sep 2005
To: laserman (MIKEMAC) [#101] 2 Sep 2005
Cindy,
The impact would not happen from folks not "buying" gas for a day. There would only be an impact if we stop "consuming" gas for a day. It is interesting to note that whenever these types of protests happen, purchasing on the day before and the day after just increase to offset so there is no net effect.
"If everyone stopped buying GAS for just One day it would make a serious dent in there pocket books!!!"
From: trophyman (MIKEBERGER) [#115]
2 Sep 2005
To: ALL
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#116]
2 Sep 2005
To: trophyman (MIKEBERGER) [#115] 6 Sep 2005
From: Ruben (QUIEROLEARN) [#117]
2 Sep 2005
To: trophyman (MIKEBERGER) [#94] 6 Sep 2005
Beware!... I heard they are getting into the engraving Industry also i find out that they are staring to buy laser systems.... :O))
Ruben
EDITED: 2 Sep 2005 by QUIEROLEARN
From: Peter [#118]
8 Sep 2005
To: ALL
Petrol in Australia is around $ 6.00 Gallon.
Australia is around 80 % petrol / oil self sufficient. They cap all the new wells found in the outback, we have billions of litres of the stuff.
We have billions of litres of LPG, we just agreed to sell 25 Billion dollars worth to the Chinese, they want to woo us away from the USA.
They actually said that it was pin money to them and that they would like to show us how lucrative it was to deal with them.
apparently we are selling it for next to nothing.
Australia has a free trade agreemant now signed with the USA, one of the final sticking points was Australias drug subsidy scheme, the US Drug companies tried to get the Australian Government, thru the US Government to abolish the decades old scheme...they want to be able to sell life saving drugs in Australia for whatever the market can bare...
We as a country have lost all our protectionism, we are too small to compete with any of the larger populations and are at the mercy of the large countries.
Our government has now indicated that we are to begin negotiating a free trade agreemant with China...we will be dead in the water...
Globalism will change the shape of society as we know it, the next 50 years will see massive shifts in labour markets, balance of Power etc.
Within 5 years Chinas Oil consumption will treble, it is now on par with the USA, part of the major oil shortage world wide has been the massive shift in industrial development in China in the last 5 years alone, where its oil consumption has gone from a modest level to = the USA..
India is also on the same technological / industrial path...
Coal...Australia has vast deposits of Coal, highly prized black coal and the lesser quality lignite or Brown coal..the lake Phillipson region in South Australia encompasses a greater land area than texas and all of it is brown coal...
Australia has reserves of many fuels...all we need to do is prevent countries from invading us to free up the resources for their own needs . >.<
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#119]
30 Sep 2005
To: Peter [#118] 19 Oct 2005
Peter, I know this is a late post to an old thread and I did not read all of it ( the thread that is)...but one thing is for certain, IF someone decided to invade Australia, it would be CLEAR why. OIL!!!! Which by the way is what many think our misguided invasion of Iraq is about. But that is for another thread I suppose.....
I hope all is well mate. You have a mate posting named Johnny Orange by the way. Now there are TWO of you Aussie types....who is invading who? :D (insert laugh here)....
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#120]
19 Oct 2005
To: ALL
There are now reports that places are putting Christmas items on sale to hit the market before the first home heating bills arrive.
$%*&^$%
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