Full Version: Question regarding equipment options
From: Linda (LINDAG) [#14]
16 Aug 2005
To: ALL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#15]
16 Aug 2005
To: Linda (LINDAG) [#14] 16 Aug 2005
Linda,
We're happy to help. Not only will rotary engraving equipment do all you currently need, the equipment is capable of applications you haven't even thought of. :-)
In general, people don't really maximize the true potential of their equipment. I think that statement holds true for the equipment used in almost any process.
EDITED: 16 Aug 2005 by DGL
From: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#16]
16 Aug 2005
To: Linda (LINDAG) [#10] 17 Aug 2005
Linda,
I have only a little to add to the comments of Harvey and logojohn.
And that is, we might not have made it clear that mechanical engravers can typically engrave *only* that which you see in the CorelDRAW View>Wireframe mode. In addition, the mechanical engravers will engrave *everything* in the View>Wireframe mode; i.e., lines that are hidden in View>Enhanced mode will engrave on mechanical machines (unless you use Harvey's "remove hidden lines" trick).
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#17]
16 Aug 2005
To: ALL
Engravelab/signlab will run most engravers and cnc routers and is the perfect back end for these machines (albeit I dont think its a great package for design).
Depending on the rotary engravers capabilites , it is VERY potent as it allows for some very serious machining strategies when generating tool paths. We run 3 Isels , a tekcel and a roland Pnc 2300 engraver off this and can do just about anything. We use Acad and Corel and import into signlab/engravelab/profilelab (all more or less the same package) and can do stuff like fills of various types , hogging , quasi 3d work, multipass and muiltidepth engraving etc - even with our mickey mouse Roland we can do stuff that the big Cnc mills can!!! we have no problem at all in terms of using Corel with any of our machines and this is a huge + as we use corel for digital printing , vinyl cutting , lasering etc and can use one file across all platforms. Decent software is as important as the machine itself and the design side is a very small part of it , how it interacts with the machines controller is far more vital. I would not buy a machine that has a program that cannot import others output or relies on prorietory fonts or formats etc.
I would not buy a small gift type rotary engraver if you really want to maximise what you do , I would look for a machine that can also do duty as a router of sorts as well as this can elevate you into being able to do some really serious work and can take you into very profitable areas.
Cutting metals and substrates that cant be laser cut is one of the most potent applications for a machine like this.
Buy a a machine that can extrapolate in all 3 axes and has a decently powered spindle motor and can do decent areas. If you combine the laser and a cnc engravers output , the applications are endless!!!
For example you could machine a black anodised aluminium instrument panel and then load it into the laser to be engraved in FAR more detail than a rotary can , or use spectrum light , engraved and die cut on the laser and then applied to brass die cut shape done on the cnc for a key fob, badge etc. You cant cut thick woods with a laser, but can easily do so with a 1/2 decent engraver and then load it into the laser for further processing. The rigidity of the machine is a huge factor in how well it engraves , get a machine that uses closed loop servo motors and not stepper motors. make sure whatever you get has VERY good Z axis clearances so you can fit bulkier items and their holding jigs and vices in them , best is a spindle motor that has a bottom loading collet as then you arent really limited to engraving bits. If you do intend to do more than mere diamond engraving , you have to get a cutter grinder - no matter how good a machine is in terms of its capabilites , without the correct bit , you might as well have a chisel.
I suppose what you get depends on what you want to do , I looked at machines like the Gravograph gift and ISO volume and wasnt that impressed in terms of price vs capabilities and they were pretty expensive (especially if you included all the accessories) unless one was doing big runs of stuff. I was pretty impressed with their ease of setup however for somone who does specialise in stuff like promotional gift marking and so on.
From: Linda (LINDAG) [#18]
17 Aug 2005
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#17] 17 Aug 2005
Rodney,
My head is spinning. There is just so much to learn about the various pieces of equipment. I want to be versatile, that is definitely my goal. Just how versatile however I don't know. Right now I am doing mostly gift items and awards. I would like to be able to create new things too. I will definitely continue to research the equipment before making a purchase.
thank you for pointing out some important things to think about and look for in new equipment.
From: JimK (JUSTTHE4OFUS) [#19]
26 Jan 2006
To: Linda (LINDAG) [#18] 26 Jan 2006
Linda,
I know its been some time ago for this thread but I am now in the spot you were when you started it. I had to look because you were describing my situation exactly. Can I ask what you finally decided on the rotary and what did you get? Are you happy with the decision? My head is now spinning! Thanks for the help!
Jim
From: Linda (LINDAG) [#20]
26 Jan 2006
To: JimK (JUSTTHE4OFUS) [#19] 27 Jan 2006
Jim,
I still have not purchased a rotary engraver as yet. I did go and look at some used equipment and spoke with a rep about a new Xenetech GE. The older equipment couldn't really do what I want, that is curved items and glasses etc. The Xenetech GE can do rings, inside and out as well as mugs, glasses, vases etc. Of course I can do the glasses, mugs, vases with the laser and sandblasting equipment. I could lease the equipment for $500 month, which is another option. (sales price is 20k)
After thinking long and hard about it (and I want the equipment really badly), I realized that it is the technicial work I love. I don't really NEED a rotary engraver, just want one. I really need to focus on the business side of my business for now. Marketing, selling and growing the business with what I have already.
I did realize however after re-reading these posts, that I had one question that really didn't get answered. (probably because I didn't really ask it) Can rotary equipment do photographs?
I will purchase a rotary engraver at some point... keep me posted on what you decide to do.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#21]
26 Jan 2006
To: Linda (LINDAG) [#20] 26 Jan 2006
Rotary/drag equipment can't engrave photographs. Just line art, which could be a "likeness" of a person etc.
From: Linda (LINDAG) [#22]
26 Jan 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#21] 26 Jan 2006
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#23]
26 Jan 2006
To: Linda (LINDAG) [#22] 27 Jan 2006
Yes, rotary/drag logos are vector images.
From: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#24]
26 Jan 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#21] 26 Jan 2006
I've seen some fantastic photos diamond engraved on a rotary system.
The key is to use the correct material for the photo. When I was in Ohio (Newing-Hall) two years ago we engraved several photos by first running them through PhotoGrav and then hatch filling in Corel.
Use black brass and the engraving is of course gold fill. The major problem is it takes forever to scribe the lines what make up a gray scale hatch fill. But it can be done!
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#25]
26 Jan 2006
To: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#24] 26 Jan 2006
Sounds kind of like an impact printer approach.
I guess I should have said, "Photos can't "easily" be engraved with a rotary/drag system. :-)
From: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#26]
26 Jan 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#25] 26 Jan 2006
From: JimK (JUSTTHE4OFUS) [#27]
27 Jan 2006
To: ALL
Thanks! This forum is definitely the best thing since sliced bread! I think I will stay away from jewelry, and I want the rotary to complement the capability of my laser and rotary fixture and soon to be added sandblasting. I have lost business because I couldn't give them real brass plates. Primarly I am looking at used as the payback will be shorter and if there is enough business to justify more (bigger table, more features, etc.) then it will be an easy business decision.
Jim
From: JimK (JUSTTHE4OFUS) [#28]
9 Feb 2006
To: Linda (LINDAG) [#27] 9 Feb 2006
Linda,
Well, with a little help from some members of this forum I was put in contact with the seller of a used New Hermes IS400 Volume with PC, scanner, software, cylinder attachments, etc. We have agreed on a price and all that remains once he gets my check, is for it be boxed up and shipped. This will give me rotary engrave/diamond drag capability for both flat and cylindrical objects, including baseball bat sizes. Adding this to my new CrystalBlast 3624 sandblast cabinet, my new MPX-60 Photo Impact Printer, and the new new rotary fixture for my ULS M-300 25w laser, I think I will be able to offer a fairly wide (LOL) range of services, solutions, and products. It is an agressive, expensive move for me, and not one without risk as my shop isn't even finished yet but one I feel I had to make. This forum has been instrumental in driving me toward my new business plan. The rotary will be pivital in my new direction.
I am coming out with a new Pete Bertrand designed logo, new business cards, and letterhead, and soon a new brochure to kick-off an agressive marketing campaign. In spite of all the new gear, my plan is to find one thing and do it well and then move on. Right now I have not determined my one thing as I do R&D and climb multiple learning curves simultaneously. Yeah, all it is is a lot of big talk right now, the proof will be in the pudding and I have yet to walk the talk as they say. The biggest challenge is time and energy as I still have my day job and all my R&D is done in the evening after an hour commute and dealing with twin 14 year old boys. All I can say is I'll either get there or I won't but the dream stays alive.
Jim
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#29]
9 Feb 2006
To: JimK (JUSTTHE4OFUS) [#28] 9 Feb 2006
If it is a used machine it probably comes with Gravostyle98 which I like better than the newer Gravostyle Gift or 5. Be sure you get the dongle, it is useless without it.
I would have liked the Volume unit better than the regular IS400 but did not have the space for that huge swinging table affair that is used.
I am pretty much an expert on Gravostyle98 and the IS400, so feel free to ask questions.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#30]
9 Feb 2006
To: JimK (JUSTTHE4OFUS) [#28] 9 Feb 2006
So you're the person who got that machine! :-)
I was licking my chops over it, but was in no position to take advantage of the opportunity.
Very versatile machine. From the descriptions of your other equipment, you're fully loaded for bear.
From: Linda (LINDAG) [#31]
9 Feb 2006
To: JimK (JUSTTHE4OFUS) [#28] 9 Feb 2006
Jim,
Sounds like you are all set! Keep us posted on your progress, I'm eager to hear how things work out for you. I feel I am headed in the same direction - still looking for that magic niche!
From: cindy (ROBERTM) [#32]
9 Feb 2006
To: Linda (LINDAG) [#31] 9 Feb 2006
I saw a guy one day set up in a local wal-mart. Not sure what type of equipment he had (it was not a laser) but some type of engraver. He was selling and engraving dog tags, car plate frames, and such.
People were lined up and would pick out different things and he would put their name or whatever on it. I talked to him for just a little bit and he was from TX and had a deal worked out with wal-mart and traveled around to the different stores.
From: Linda (LINDAG) [#33]
9 Feb 2006
To: cindy (ROBERTM) [#32] 9 Feb 2006
Cindy,
I saw a machine like you are describing at the Columbus show as well as in the mall. I don't recall the name (Met or z or something) and cost around $2k. The problem is they are very limited in what they do. Anyway the machine looks pretty easy to use.
I wonder if they can do metals as well...
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