Full Version: Tropar
From: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#21]
27 Aug 2005
To: Zonas [#2] 28 Aug 2005
I have dealt with Tropar since the mid 1970's and I have never known them to intentionally sell direct to the end user. As a matter of fact there have been many instances that I am aware of where they refused to do so. In the early 1980's when I started Awardmasters, I even had a hard time getting them to sell to me because I did not have a retail storefront. That was after I had purchased from them for about 7 years with the previous company I owned.
They have very strict company policies and generally are very rigid in standing by them, sometimes to their detriment. It is difficult to get them to bend if it violates one of their rules.
Please elaborate more on the problems you have had bidding against them. Did they bid the job or did another retailer get the hardware part and you got the engraving?
From: Zonas [#22]
28 Aug 2005
To: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#21] 28 Aug 2005
I don't want to give to 'exact' of names since this is the internet, but my customer - a large company, puts bids out for different items each year. As I stated earlier - I did not see the name of the winner on the bid, but I did get to see the exact price this company paid per item. It was the exact price we pay from Tropar (to the cent). I receive the cases (after they have been delivered to the company) and the UPS stickers are still on them. Since the bids have to include shipping charges. I asked Tropar if there was any additional discounts (this bid was for 500 - $50.00 items) - and was very strongly told no. Now if there is somebody (besides Tropar) out there selling these items at cost, and paying Tropar to drop ship them, then I stand correted, but I'd like to talk to them about some land for sell ;)
Zona
From: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#23]
28 Aug 2005
To: Zonas [#22] 28 Aug 2005
It does sound like the purchase was probably made directly from Tropar. However, I would still think that if Tropar did sell the items direct that they believed that they were selling to a retailer and not the end user.
Why don't you ask Tropar if they made the sale and see what they say?
From: Zonas [#24]
28 Aug 2005
To: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#23] 28 Aug 2005
Pete (and others), this thread was first started asking if others had problems with Tropar. I stated that my only problem was this 'bid deal'. I'm positive (since I've won several bids) that the provider of this item clearly knew they were not dealing with a retailer. The forms we have to complete during the bid process clearly state who is requesting the bids. I wish I could find this one item from other suppliers (believe me I look at all ARA shows), but I can't and there is still 1 or 2 years left on this contract, so there is nothing I can do. Do I have any other complaints with Tropar...no. These items have arrived in excellent shape to my customer, they engrave great and look good. Do I use Tropar - I can only think of twice in the last 9 years - and it was only because I had to match other plaques. I only pull out their catalog when I can't find something any place else - just to see if they carry it. I only stated my problem/concern to see if any others had ran into this also. If others haven't, great, I'm glad I'm the only one. If Tropar has changed their policy in the last couple of years that will be even better yet for me, if not I'll live with it. I have to many things going on right now to bother with calling Tropar about something that neither of us can change since they are committed to this contract. Maybe when the contract opens up again, I'll make the call, but not until then.
Zona
From: Doc (GREAT_ATLANTIC) [#25]
28 Aug 2005
To: ALL
Hi all...new to the forum. Thanks for providing it!
My company will never knowingly do business with a supplier that competes for our business. We do occassionally buy from Tropar, but we've never been in a position to compete. If that situation ever arises, everything Airflyte will become a memory. Customers rarely ask for the specific brand anyway (replacements only.)
I think Cindy hit the nail on the head: either you are a wholesale supplier or you are a retailer. At very least, if you opt for the wholesale route, you should stay within the boundaries of published MSRP if selling to the public. Undercutting dealers in a bid process is reprehensible. This is Business Ethics 101.
And the notion that this activity can somehow be rationalized by dealers who "gouge" is frankly none of a suppliers business. Consider the fact that while wholesale prices have increased substantially, the client expectation on pricing (particularly high volume clients like teams and schools) has not. Is our bottom line affected? Of course. But those products that can be sold at higher than average margins make up for low margin pains.
Maintain a list of "legacy" clients with whom you have done business for many years? Fine, but don't take exception when I go after that same business in a frenzy, perhaps even undercutting you with competitive products.
Ultimately it is the dealer and customer who should determine the end pricing with their wallets....not the suppliers. In a free market there are simply too many options to accept anything else.
From: Cindy (CINDYM) [#26]
29 Aug 2005
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#20] 29 Aug 2005
Roy - I only started noticing problems with Tropar last year. They have been a supplier of mine for over 15 years, and have always done a great job for me. In my original post, you'll see I was wondering if anyone knew of any changes in Tropar. The changes seem to be that their office staff can't seem to get instructions (given in writing) correct. If there is any "special handling" requested they ignore it.
For example, in March I had the ARA show to attend, and then I had to attend another trade show/conference back east. I was going to be out of the office for a total of 10 days. However, I knew that on the day I came back to work I had an order that needed to go out. The order came in the day before I was to leave for the ARA show, so not enough time to get the product I needed in prior to leaving. I faxed my order in, requesting that the shipment arrive the Friday before I returned on Monday, so it would be here for sure on the Monday I needed it. My shop would only be open some of the time while I was gone, and not during our UPS delivery hours.
To my surprise, I received a call from one of my employees while in LV wondering what she should do with the notice from UPS that they had tried to deliver the package - a full 6 days before I was to return. I had to have an employee make a special trip down to the UPS terminal to pick up the package since the hours they were covering didn't include when UPS did their regular delivery, or the package would have been returned to Tropar.
This is but one instance where they have caused me much inconvenience. There are a few more instances I could tell you about. And like I said, this all just started last year. Before that, if I asked them to hold an order to ship on a certain day, they had no problem doing so.
So I was wondering what, if anything, had changed. When I mentioned the error to the sales staff in LV (I was actually in their booth when I received the call from my employee ironically), they all laughed it off like I was joking with them, which I wasn't, and didn't act like it either.
So any insights in to management changes? It is truly a customer service problem, and I have pointed it out to them each time they have not done what I specifically have asked them to do - in writing each time.
Cindy
From: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#27]
29 Aug 2005
To: Cindy (CINDYM) [#26] 29 Aug 2005
Cindy,
Thanks for the details. I know there has not been any changes at the national level nor at the Texas warehouse, but am not familiar with the west coast operation. I bet this thread gets to national headquarters and an inquiry will result --- we may or may not be aware of the outcome.
From: Cindy (CINDYM) [#28]
29 Aug 2005
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#27] 29 Aug 2005
The Texas warehouse is where I am experiencing the problems. That is the closest warehouse to my location.
I hope someone there sees this thread and responds. I would love to keep them as a supplier, but I like to deal with customer service people who can follow instructions. I don't ask for something difficult, and it should be easy to do on their end.
We'll see what happens.
Cindy M
From: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#29]
29 Aug 2005
To: Cindy (CINDYM) [#28] 30 Aug 2005
Cindy,
Why don't you call and talk with Charles about your problems. I am sure he would listen and see that any problems are corrected.
From: Colin (MATROPHY) [#30]
30 Aug 2005
To: Cindy (CINDYM) [#28] 31 Aug 2005
Cindy,
I too have noticed Tropar's quality declining as well as their willingness to correct their own problems. For example, I ordered 2 24 plate perpetual plaques and since my customer had one office on the East Coast and one in California, the customer paid for extra blank plates for me to keep and engrave as they called for them and mail to them. I ordered 100 extra plates and they all had some kind of oil or plasticizer that had migrated out of the release film on them that had to be scrubbed off with goo-gone and plenty of elbow grease. Tropar sent me another batch that had the same problem. When I complained and asked them to inspect all of the plates to remove the bad ones, they basically laughed it off as a ridiculous suggestion. They told me that they would replace only 48 of the plates and I would have to pay for the rest. The third replacement of 48 that I received was OK but I am still using goo-gone on the others.
I have had plaques drilled crooked, wrong part numbers in the box, clocks that don't work or are damaged out of the box, blemishes, dented piano finish, etc, etc.
I called the factory in New Jersey after one particularly bad incident and got the same response you got at the trade show - that what I was seeing was somehow a string of isolated incidents. I didn't have a fuzzy feeling that anything was going to change.
Sometimes I wonder if some of our suppliers know our business - that is, one where you CANNOT be late on an order. You can hear certain body parts tightening over the phone when you ask Tropar to air-ship replacements. Credits take so long it's easy to forget that they are coming. However, the dunning notices for overdue invoices that I won't pay - because I had to get a replacement shipped and I'm waiting for a credit - arrive like clockwork.
I have a problem with their choice of shipping box. I will order two plaques and they'll put them in a box 3 times larger than it needs to be and I end up paying for an oversized box if it's an express shipment - a good way to break even on a job. I complained until I was blue in the face and was told that was how they do it and that was UPS told them to do. Harrumph!
OK - I think that's enough.
I believe that most of the problems come from Texas and since its 4 days from Texas and 5 days from New Jersey, I try and use New Jersey if I can afford to wait the extra day. Doing so has eliminated a lot of problems but I am planning on phasing them out where possible. Too bad someone else doesn't make a wide variety of 'kit' plaques that are ready to go except for engraving. Their catalog with the 3x markup already printed is nice too. Wish someone else had something similar.
From: Cindy (CINDYM) [#31]
31 Aug 2005
To: Colin (MATROPHY) [#30] 31 Aug 2005
Glad to hear I'm not imagining all this. I, too, like the fact that I can link their catalog to my website and that they don't sell to the general public - although I guess that might be subject to some more discussion and investigation.
I have a lot of business clients, and they seem to be particularly poor at pre-planning, so I have a lot of orders that need to be filled pretty quickly. I keep a variety of clocks in stock, and plaques, to try and avoid those rush orders, but invariably they will pick something I don't have in stock, (even though I try and steer them in the direction I want them to go, clients are like herding cats at times)and I will have to do a rush order.
So I understand what you are saying about the feeling you get when you ask for Red or Blue shipping. Most of the time I get them on time, but a few have been shipped regular UPS even though I asked for Rush, which really messes you up. I finally started asking for a tracking number and I will call back the day after I order to get that tracking number.
If I ask for a confirming fax - just to write on my faxed in order that the order has been received and fax it back to me - it never happens. I have to call in and check to make sure they got the order. If I don't call, the order seems to disappear and they have no record that I ordered.
I do order out of Texas almost all the time. Sheila is my rep, and she usually takes care of business very well. I understand she's been out sick for a while, or with a medical type issue, but not since last year.
Like you, I'm on a hunt to find a new supplier. I have contacted Tropar about these problems, and they just say New Jersey has to handle them. I then call New Jersey, and they say I have to talk to Texas. Of course, none of these calls are toll free.
Thanks for the reminder - I need to call and see where my refund from the first of July is - still have yet to see that $80+.
Cindy M
From: JHayes55 [#32]
31 Aug 2005
To: Cindy (CINDYM) [#31] 31 Aug 2005
Hate to hear people having these types of problems.
My experience has be a lot different. I consider Tropar to be one of the Best Suppliers I have. My sales rep calls on me regular basis - always letting me know a few days or week ahead when he is coming. Over the last several years I have only had a very few damaged or quality problems.
We get our shipments from Chicago and a few from NJ - never a problem with any thing special - My rep. handles any questions or problems without fail. I only wish your experience was a good as mine because its a real pleasure to work with Tropar on our end. I am on the end of the world from my rep but it seems that my orders are just as important as the large customers he has in the city areas and I appreciate being treated that way.
I cannot really comment on you problems with Tropar, only tell you that my experience has been an excellent with Tropar and I wish yours was too.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#33]
31 Aug 2005
To: JHayes55 [#32] 31 Aug 2005
Your story coincides with what I see from almost any company, from almost any industry.
We would hope all employees are created equal, but they're not. Some take their jobs seriously. Some are watching the clock and putting in their time.
Sadly, it can come down to dealing with the right person within the company.
Whenever I deal with a person who really has their act together, not only am I surprised, but I think they should be up for an award. :-)
Have you seen studies detailing how many productive hours the average employee puts in each day? It's not 8. It's not 6.
From: Colin (MATROPHY) [#34]
31 Aug 2005
To: JHayes55 [#32] 31 Aug 2005
From: Cindy (CINDYM) [#35]
31 Aug 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#33] 31 Aug 2005
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#36]
31 Aug 2005
To: Cindy (CINDYM) [#35] 31 Aug 2005
I don't want to get you started, but I don't think it would take much. :-)
If you think it's a worthy topic, please kick it off under its own title.
From: Cindy (CINDYM) [#37]
31 Aug 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#36] 31 Aug 2005
I just zapped off ANOTHER request to Tropar to find out where my refund is. Shouldn't take 2 months to clear this up - and what a time waster to keep going back to revisit this issue.
If I get a minute I'll start another thread David about employee productivity. I just had a long talk with someone yesterday about this very issue (perhaps talk is too mild - go ahead and call it a rant).
Cindy M
From: basehorawards [#38]
31 Aug 2005
To: Cindy (CINDYM) [#37] 1 Sep 2005
Cindy,
May I get a contact number or email for Tropar? I looked at their website and like what I saw.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#39]
31 Aug 2005
To: Cindy (CINDYM) [#37] 1 Sep 2005
We'll be on the lookout for your productivity discussion. :-)
EDITED: 31 Aug 2005 by DGL
From: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#40]
31 Aug 2005
To: ALL
My experience with Tropar has been very positive. In fact, I've even written a "praise" thread in this forum about them...and specifically Margaret in their Texas office.
As with most any supplier, there have been a couple of times when an order took a day longer to arrive than I had expected, or when something was damaged.
In the one instance that I recall that something was damaged, Margaret got the replacement material to me the very next day (at no charge, of course).
Tropar continues to be one of my favorite suppliers, and I have a link to their "retail" site on my website.
All that being said, I had a slightly different experience today....
I was lasering a P2924 plaque plate today (with the same settings that I've used for the last 18 months), and I noticed that the area immediately around the letters looked "shadowy"...similar to smoke residue. I tried to wipe it off with a cloth, but it wouldn't budge.
I then tried to wipe it off with an alcohol swab. BIG mistake. The shadows came off, but so did a LOT of the black silk screen. After the alcohol evaporated, the plate was very dull-looking...and very ruined. Note that I've been able to use these same swabs on this same type of plate before, and the finish did NOT come off on the swab like this.
Long story short, I called Margaret to tell her about the issue. Once I explained that it was clearly a deficiency with the plate, she told me that she'd get a new one out today.
She also told me that she didn't think Tropar had switched suppliers for this plate, but it's obvious to me that SOMETHING has changed with it.
The poor quality of this plate caused me a little frustration:
1) If I use enough power to fully vaporize the lettering, the surrounding silk screening melts/discolors.
2) If I cut my power back enough to NOT melt the screen, it doesn't completely vaporize the lettering. There doesn't seem to be a happy medium.
The end result is that I'm having to engrave these plates TWICE at low power to get the job done. Luckily for me, this job has only 14 plaques.
Cody
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