Full Version: Seeking advice for sublimation business
From: mike d (ENGRAVEDFX) [#1]
25 Sep 2005
To: ALL
Hi all,
I'm currently operating an engraving business from home using the Roland Metaza MPX60, we are just 4 weeks into the business based out of Toronto, Ontario. My partners and I are very pleased with the outcome thus far. But, we find that we're lacking variety, options, and most of all, colour. So, we are now toying with the idea of adding a new line of products using the sublimation process. The products being, dog tags/pendants, license plates, mouse pads, plaques and or trophies. Being pretty new and wet behind the ears with this business we're somewhat indecisive at the moment. For now we're just focused into running a small operation and expand at a reasonable, comfortable pace.
We've done some research and found that the JP-12 Geo Knight press and Epson Stylus C86 (and ink bulk system) appears to be a match with what we're looking for. Can anyone give me any feedback into this and the sublimation process in general. Would you recommend it? I've read the many misfortunes in the discussion thread of "into/out of the sublimation business", and is kind of discouraging. But at the same time, I really want to get into it. I feel that (even though i know nothing about it, but based my feelings from the Metaza experience) it would be a great business to get into and profitable as well.
Furthermore, if we do decide into joining the sublimation team, could you please recommend a sublimation press AND products distributor or manufacturer (and/or Metaza products for that matter) based on the products i mentioned above within the Greater Toronto Area, even better, the Mississauga area. I've tried Canadian Engravers but their customer service is HORRIBLE!!!. OPENi is pretty good but just not enough product line.
Your answers to all of my questions and any suggestions/comments would GREATLY be appreciated. I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks!
EDITED: 25 Sep 2005 by ENGRAVEDFX
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#2]
25 Sep 2005
To: mike d (ENGRAVEDFX) [#1] 26 Sep 2005
Mike,
You will get some good advice here, but you should also check out http:/www.dyesub.org.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#3]
26 Sep 2005
To: mike d (ENGRAVEDFX) [#1] 26 Sep 2005
If you are getting into sublimation and have a Metaza you NEED to do color dog tags, and a few other shapes of necklaces. The going price across the country for these are $34.95 and up. They are less costly to make, faster, and easier with a higher retail than Metaza. I added them about 8 months ago and they are a great product. You just need a really good display with a huge header to catch the customer's eye.
I have a complete sublimation setup in my shop, not in the store, and do little sublimation. I have a small setup at the kiosk, (Knight label press), and do fairly well with the dog tag/necklaces.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#4]
26 Sep 2005
To: mike d (ENGRAVEDFX) [#1] 26 Sep 2005
If you go the ink jet sublimation route, I'd suggest starting with cartridges in your small format printer.
You won't want to jump in with both feet until you see if you can develop a market for your sublimated products.
You'll also want to see if you have the temperment to be a sublimator. Not everyone is cut out for it.
Another reason is, bulk ink systems can sometimes be problematic in themselves.
Sublimation is the ultimate process of variables. You want to deal with as few of the variables as possible until you get your fundamental bearings.
On that topic, how are you with graphics programs? In my opinion, that's the starting point.
From: mike d (ENGRAVEDFX) [#5]
26 Sep 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#4] 27 Sep 2005
Hi David ... thanks for the advice. I did make my final decision early this morning and couldn't hold back on purchasing a sublimation system. I've read all the warnings and bad luck of others with the system but I feel that I have enough patience and drive to make it work. I truly believe in the product. So for starters I went with the JP12 Geo Knight heat press, Epson C86, and the bulk ink system.
I do plan on starting off small for now. You're exactly right, with as few of the variables as possible. So i'll be sticking with the dog tags and other different shapes until I get the gist of it. Then I'll see about getting into sublimating other materials.
To answer your question, I use to do software development, but now I'm a systems analyst. I don't work a lot with graphics programs but I feel I know enough to get by and self teach to become more efficient at it. But we'll see, if not, I can always use this forum! ;D
thanks so much ... let me know if you think i made the right decision ... and be honest. thanks!
From: mike d (ENGRAVEDFX) [#6]
26 Sep 2005
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#3] 27 Sep 2005
Hi Harvey,
Yes, I totally agree. Although we've been getting great reviews on our product I always thought that we don't have enough product/options and most of all COLOUR! Which I feel is what attracts the consumer eye. I've been trying to convince my partners to add sublimation to our business but they insist on waiting another month or so. Being the stubborn person that I am, I went ahead and purchased it anyway. I'll find out what they think about that move tomorrow at our meeting. But I'll arm myself with a bunch of samples ... that'll learn em! ;)
So 35.95 is the avg going price? I suppose that's in the US? Here, we're selling large dog tags (photo engraved) for $19.99 CDN. But, we don't operate out of a mall or kiosk needless to say we don't have much turnover. But at the same time, I think we're a little too low. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Canadian consumer but do you think we should be raising our prices?
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#7]
27 Sep 2005
To: mike d (ENGRAVEDFX) [#6] 28 Sep 2005
For the impact dog tags I charge 24.95 and $21.95 for the smaller dog tag and the hearts. The price difference is due to the time of engraving. It just takes so long to get one done that I feel that is too low, but it is the going price. Most of my customers that have seen them elsewhere go "Wow."
On the MPX-50 I have altered the settings and use a few tricks to get a bright image. One of them is that I engrave below the max of 15mm/sec. It was recommended to use 8, but I found that with my unit there was only the faintest difference between that and 10. I use 10mm/sec. At Vegas I looked at all of the samples that Roland had on display, mine are better than their display samples.
Do not put your best work on display, put your average work on display. It will be good enough to entice the customer, but will generate a 'WOW' when you deliver a better image on their product.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#8]
27 Sep 2005
To: mike d (ENGRAVEDFX) [#5] 28 Sep 2005
I think you made the right decision, just by getting started. Many people agonize over that decision, to the point of never taking the step.
The learning curve can be pretty steep, but it sounds like you have the determination and background to climb the mountain.
One of the main draws to sublimation is the wide variety of items that can be printed.
To get overall experience, I would suggest trying many substrates, then narrow down to those which you enjoy producing and find profitable.
My main business is engraving, though sublimation has become a lucrative adjunct. Metal namebadges (plain and epoxy domed) and metal plates for award plaques have provided the most steady work.
I had always heard that "Color Sells" but the impact of those words really didn't hit home, until one day, when I walked into a customer's award shop, who I had given a 6" ceramic tile, imprinted with colorful art of a microbrewery's beer label.
My friend had inlayed the tile to a walnut plaque board and engraved a brass plate, which he placed below the tile. I wasn't aware of how he used the sample tile.
The shop is small, but loaded with very nice products, i.e., stately clocks, etched crystal, shadow boxes, etc.
On that day, I walked into his treasure trove, and amongst all the works of art, my eyes were immediately and involuntarily drawn to the walnut plaque with the tile inlay.
I thought to myself, "OK, now I know what the words 'Color Sells' mean." :-)
From: mike d (ENGRAVEDFX) [#9]
28 Sep 2005
To: ALL
thank you everyone for your replies ... you've been a great help!!! I have now started sublimating the dog tags and their turning out awesome!! ... my partners are going to owe me big time! :D
However, I've come accross a problem with the printer, the Epson C86. Everytime I print an image file whether it be 1 image or 5 in one file, the print will go through no problem when setting quality option to just text. Now when I set the quality option to text & image, or photo, or best photo. The initial print will go through but any prints after the printer errors out, and the only way to get it going again is to restart the pc. This occurs everytime on a consistent basis. I suspect that there's a setting somewhere that needs to be changed, I just can't find it anywhere. Anyone have any idea?? HELP!!!
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#10]
28 Sep 2005
To: mike d (ENGRAVEDFX) [#9] 29 Sep 2005
Been there had that happen. When Windows put out service pack 2 for XP it screwed up the existing drivers terribly. You need to go to the Epson.com website and download the latest driver for XP. Install it and it should take care of the problem.
[Isn't it strange to go into the printer box for the C86 and see 'Printing page 4 of 1?]
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#11]
29 Sep 2005
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#10] 29 Sep 2005
I'm getting that on my machine with win 98 SE. Doesn't matter if its the attached printer or the new network printer. Are you saying its specific to each driver? I assumed it had to do with spooling.
From: Funkmeister (FUNKY) [#12]
29 Sep 2005
To: mike d (ENGRAVEDFX) [#9] 29 Sep 2005
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#13]
29 Sep 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#11] 29 Sep 2005
By the way, you can do a nozzle check in that locked up position.
From: mike d (ENGRAVEDFX) [#14]
29 Sep 2005
To: ALL
From: mike d (ENGRAVEDFX) [#15]
29 Sep 2005
To: Funkmeister (FUNKY) [#12] 29 Sep 2005
sure, no problem ... i'll post one up as soon as i can.
on that note, anyone have tips on how to sub shirts? i.e. heat press time, temperature, material etc ...
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16]
29 Sep 2005
To: mike d (ENGRAVEDFX) [#15] 29 Sep 2005
The best tip I can offer, regarding printing to fabric, is to use a hi-release transfer paper.
It makes the difference between a dark gray and a solid black and an orangey red to a nice fire engine red. Very dramatic results.
You'll find them under a variety of names, such as, Jetcol, Jewel (same as Jetcol) or some have 95% in their names, such as Sub Trans 95% Plus.
I believe Textprint XP is aso a high release paper.
Hi-release tranfer paper can be problematic with some substrates, such as Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic (FRP), which is the basis of many Unisub products and sublimatable metal, but for fabrics, and in my experience, ceramic and glass tiles, hi-release transfer paper is "the bomb."
Reportedly, a good thing, according to my 15-year-old daughter. :-)
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#17]
29 Sep 2005
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#13] 29 Sep 2005
Sorry Harvey,
Think I jumped into the thread and confused things. You replied to me regarding clogged jets. I don't have a sublimation setup. I was inquiring further into your comment similar to "printing page 10 of 2". I get things like that on my windows 98 machine when doing normal printing from any program, to either printer. (USB, or network.)
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#18]
2 Oct 2005
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#13] 2 Oct 2005
Trouble in XP paradise.
My friend's computer is now upgraded to the newest service of XP and the print driver for the C86 is the latest version. STILL the one page between reboot problem.
After being on the phone with Microsoft and Epson multiple times, there is a semi solution, even though poor. [I will have to say this in English not computerese since I left my notes at the store.]
You have to find the System Services part of WinXP, [through the Control Panel, notes in store), go to the Services directory, which you cannot make a shortcut to put on the desktop. Find the 'Print Spooler' and click on it. You will have the opportunity to shut it, then activate it again. Then you can put out the next page.
I did not have time to check if it could just be shut and left that way so the printer would be driven directly.
Also need to find out if the printer driver can be disconnected from the spooler, that should also do it.