Full Version: What Cutter Grinder to buy?
From: Ed (EBERTRAND) [#1]
10 Oct 2005
To: ALL
I am looking for sujestions on the cutter grinder to buy
and what additional equipment and supplies I will need
to sharpen my own cutters. I should have done this
many years ago, but I've managed so far by having
lots of cutters on hand. However this last job has
been eating cutters faster than I can get them sharpened.
Any and all information will really be appreciated.
Thanks - Ed
EDITED: 10 Oct 2005 by DGL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#2]
10 Oct 2005
To: Ed (EBERTRAND) [#1] 10 Oct 2005
I use a New Hermes CG-4, which is an oldie but goodie. I'm not sure what the newer models cost, and I bought mine so long ago, I can't remember what I paid (used). $400?
Seemed expensive at the time, but it's been a crucial piece of equipment.
If you're sharpening carbide cutters, you'll need a diamond wheel. You'll also need a tip size comparitor.
Quality One Engravers sells a cutter grinder and accessories, you could check there.
Ebay may have some listed.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#3]
10 Oct 2005
To: Ed (EBERTRAND) [#1] 10 Oct 2005
I have an old cutter grinder also, I believe a CG-4.
When you buy a cutter grinder be sure it can do burnishing bits, mine is not set up for it. You cannot get the 4 angles 90* apart. I fudge it at times to do that, but never perfectly. Even though I use many diamond burnishers which it does not do, the larger ones, (above .040), have to be carbide.
P.S. The back clearance for an acrylic bit should leave more meat than standard practice says. It will last three times longer with less clearance.
From: clay (CLAY_J1955) [#4]
10 Oct 2005
To: Ed (EBERTRAND) [#1] 10 Oct 2005
Hi Ed
We use gorton (LARS) and deckel grinders here. In my opinion that litte Deckel SO is the finest tool grinder money can buy, trouble is it take a lot of money to buy it. There are several on ebay i think the buy now price is $1800 to $2100. i have seen the gorton 265 go for as little a $800 and the would certainly do the job.
From: gravoman [#5]
15 Oct 2005
To: Ed (EBERTRAND) [#1] 16 Oct 2005
Ed,
A good magnifier, X8 or X10 with a scale, is essential to get the width you need without guessing.
From: Ralph (RHOUGHTON) [#6]
22 Oct 2005
To: Ed (EBERTRAND) [#1] 23 Oct 2005
An alternative to the tip gage is a small 50x microscope obtainable from Edmund Scientific and mounted over a small V-block. I rigged mine to a Unimat lathe with a wood holding block. Getting good lighting is hard, but worth working at. The accuracy is read on a .100 scale with .001" graduations.
I have a couple of data sheets with information supporting the New Hermes cutter specifications for working different materials if anyone is interested.
From: Ralph (RHOUGHTON) [#7]
27 Nov 2005
To: Ed (EBERTRAND) [#1] 28 Nov 2005
Ed, I happen to have a CG-4 and might be willing to part with it. It has a diamond wheel for carbide cutters and an aluminum oxide wheel for the HSS cutters. I have collets for 1/8" 11/64" and 1/4" cutters along with the documentation. There is a photo copy of an article from the Engraver's Journal with good detail on cutter specs. I think there is also a 5/16 collet - useful for regrinding tracing pins on older manual machines.
I prefer the Deckel industrial strength grinders and have an HP Pries for fine tipping.
There is nothing like the independence of having a cutter grinder, but you will need to do a lot of practice. Another useful tool to have is a 50x microscope from Edmund Scientific which has a .100 reticle with .001" grad markings. You need to mount this over a small machinist V-block with some kind of side to side adjustment so you can center the cutter. This does two things - measure the tip exactly and look at the cutting edge to assess the grind quality.
So I hear it is not possible to overheat carbide during grinding because it is compressed powder, but I think it can.
Let me know if you are interested,
Ralph
From: Ed (EBERTRAND) [#8]
28 Nov 2005
To: Ralph (RHOUGHTON) [#7] 28 Nov 2005
Thank you Ralph,
and all the others who have helped me decide.
I originally looked at a used Deckel SO and then went on
to get the prices of a new Deckel SO and SOE.
Then on to the CNC with auto tool selector at this
point it was no longer a profit center but a full blown
business adventure.
"There is nothing like the independence of having a cutter grinder, but you will need to do a lot of practice."
I have now decided to let the professionals do the grinding
and suffer without the independence of having a cutter grinder or
the learning curve.
Thank all of you, this forum is really great.
Ed
From: Semi-Accurate Engraver (LONEHAWK) [#9]
28 Mar 2006
To: Ed (EBERTRAND) [#8] 28 Mar 2006
It kinda breaks my heart to hear you gave up on the grinder. I personally don't know how i'd work without one.
Let me just say this, the learning curve is not "that" bad for learning to sharpen your everyday cutters. (meaning not making cut-out with bevel cutters, quarter rounds, etc.)
I learned how to sharpen a cutter from my boss when i first started in the business in about half an hour. (the basics that is). If I can learn how to sharpen a cutter, almost anyone can! (I'm not the brightest bird in the tree at the best of times!) The only tools you "really" need to get started is the grinder with it's collets, diamond wheel etc., a nice little micrometer. (I prefer the digital readout ones but i dirgress.).and any ol' magnifying glass type thing. (I use it for making tips of 0.010" or smaller and excuse the overly technical lingo.)
If one can't afford a grinder, one can't afford to be WITHOUT a grinder. The shop I work at, we'd go broke I think if we had to send out all our cutters to be sharpened. We just wouldn't be able to function that way.
It's just my two cents worth, but I would urge you to look further into getting a grinder for yourself. Deckels and Alexanders rock, but for basic sharpening the Hermes one's will do just fine. I'm sure you could get some "hands on" training -- even if it's just an hour or two to get you started on the right foot understanding the basics -- from the people you buy the grinder from. I've had the chance to teach a few people some things in my time and I've found people always learn best from hands on learning. We see what we see, but we learn what we do. :-)
Again, it's just my humble opinion, but I really do believe that if your shop does a good amount of rotarty engraving a grinder will be a heaven sent thing for you.
From: Chewbarka [#10]
29 Mar 2006
To: Ed (EBERTRAND) [#1] 29 Mar 2006
I know this one is for sale! Runs Excellent, Very smooth
Frank