Full Version: Chicago ARA Show Comments/Equipment Dilemma
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#1]
7 Nov 2005
To: ALL
Before the dust settles and things are fresh in your minds, those who went to the Chicago ARA Show, share your experience. Inquiring minds want to know.
Are there any new inspiring products?
Did you see any innovative marking processes introduced?
Did you attend any educational seminars?
Did you see Kathy Vasic (Peter's Better Half) hanging from any of the Chicago towers holding a banner advertising their business?
;-)
EDITED: 9 Nov 2005 by DGL
From: BrianC (INKSQUIRTER) [#2]
7 Nov 2005
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#1] 7 Nov 2005
David,
My reason for going to Chicago was to mostly look at new equipment. I have been trying to decide on a new rotary or venture into the lasering community.
I was disappointed in the Xenetech rotary display. I was informed by the company that someone would be there with the 1625 and that wasn't the case. What bothered me most is the lack of information I could gleen from the reps. Xenetech as a company lost out because of this.
I spent a lot of time at Vision....I was impressed with their 1624 model engraving machine and the Engravelab software. However, there is no way to use a rotary attacment for this machine. They had FIVE very knowledgable reps in their booth. I would recommend anyone looking into engraving machines to give Vision serious consideration!
I then headed to Universal. Again, the reps were outstanding. They took as much time as I needed and took great pleasure in showing me anything I wanted. I did NOT get the feeling they were just trying to sell me a machine, even though the price was terrific.
Victory had a separate room for "retailers only" to view new products. I never made it though as I spent the entire time on the floor talking to many other companies.
Laser Reproductions has some new products I will be ordering soon. The pet cookie jars are great and if I order a case I will get the wrap for free. I see lots of potential for these in the pet market. I also saw the glass cheese board and liked it as well.
I was also impressed with Fox Laminators. The have a process of laminating documents, certificates, articles, etc. to different colored plaque boards. The gave me a sample board and a board with corresponding edge and finish colors.
I have to leave on a call right now and I might add more later.
Brian
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3]
7 Nov 2005
To: BrianC (INKSQUIRTER) [#2] 7 Nov 2005
I have a customer who uses a Vision 1624 for rotary and diamond drag engraving.
The machine is equipped with a collet loading spindle (rotary) in which top-loading diamond drag cutters are used.
From: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#4]
8 Nov 2005
To: BrianC (INKSQUIRTER) [#2] 9 Nov 2005
Brian,
Ouch, on the Xenetech comments. They have not gone unnoticed.
No excuse for the impression with which you were left; no one could blame you if you did, or soon will purchase the machine to which you are leaning. But, I'd still strongly recommend you have someone *very* familiar with both EngraveLab & Xenetech software make some pointed comparisons.
From: BrianC (INKSQUIRTER) [#5]
9 Nov 2005
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#4] 9 Nov 2005
Roy,
I find it hard to believe that "any" company (there are others)
would come to a trade show so unprepared. I understand Xenetech is a good company but if I were them I would feel very uneasy having reps promoting (or not for that matter) my equipment.
I think I will contact the company and pass my observations on to them. Would I still buy Xenetech? Possible....
I don't think they won anyone over to their side though.
brian
From: trophyman (MIKEBERGER) [#6]
9 Nov 2005
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#5] 9 Nov 2005
I also got the DON'T BOTHER US impression from the Xenetech booth, it helps to reinforce my feelings that the main reason that they purchased Miestergram was to KILL OFF their main competition. I also was very impressed by the others who were very willing to take and spend all the time necessary explaining and demonstrating their equipment and its capabilities. The rest of the show was good, although I was a little disappointed in the lack of suppliers that did display. These show are the best way for us to view their products. The educational seminars where very good and quite well attended with most of them being very near to capacity. The Midwest show is one that we definitely need to keep in the line-up and Chicago is the perfect location for it.
Mike
From: BrianC (INKSQUIRTER) [#7]
9 Nov 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3] 9 Nov 2005
David,
How does your friend like the Vision AND the Engravelab software? I've been flip flopping from rotary to laser and today I am thinking laser again.
Brian
From: BrianC (INKSQUIRTER) [#8]
9 Nov 2005
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#4] 9 Nov 2005
Roy,
Not sure where I could get a single person that knows both Engravelab and Xenetech software. I would be interested in your opinions of both if you care to share.
Brian
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#9]
9 Nov 2005
To: BrianC (INKSQUIRTER) [#8] 10 Nov 2005
Brian,
I am going to give you my non-users observation on this subject for what it is worth. (probably not much)
I have read every single post of this forum and many from other engraving forums that have come and gone. Based on the comments of users, I have no hesitantion in saying that Xenetech is hand-over-fist, a more positively received software. There is nothing scientific about this opinion, it is simply based on the comments of what I have read.
Xenetech software users tended to like the fact that they had no big learning curve when they added a Xenetech laser or computerized mechanical engraver to their other Xenetch equipment mix. The software will drive both technologies.
EDITED: 9 Nov 2005 by DATAKES
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#10]
9 Nov 2005
To: BrianC (INKSQUIRTER) [#7] 10 Nov 2005
The folks who have the Vision don't really push the limits of its capability. They primarily run the machine with the stock Vision engraving software.
Overall, they're happy with the machine, although I know of a couple times they've had to have it repaired. Not sure what the problem, the fix or the cost was.
If you're waffling between upgrading your rotary machine and buying a laser, I think it depends on what you'll use the machine for.
A laser would certainly usher in a new level of versatility, with respect to a broader range of engravable substrates, which a rotary can't easily match.
On the other hand, a versatile rotary machine, meaning one with a wide range of holding capabilities, including cylindrical engraving, would open doors to areas the laser (and many models of rotary equipment) will never invade.
I'm glad you're the person having to make this decision. It's a tough call.
From: Jim (JIMG) [#11]
9 Nov 2005
To: BrianC (INKSQUIRTER) [#2] 10 Nov 2005
Brian,
I believe I owe you an apology. I was the Xenetech distributor in charge of the Chicago Show. The show was scheduled to have my 1625 demo engraver. However, I did a demonstration two days before the show for someone who was in immediate need of that machine. I made arangements to have our distributor in Toledo bring his rotary 1313, since the only difference between the 1313 and 1625 is the size of the table. I was not aware that you were told there would be a 1625rotary at the show. I am sorry you were inconvenienced.
I am not sure what type of information you were interested in that I could not, or did not offer. I believe I can answer most questions concerning engraving and the use of Xenetech equipment. My background over the last 24 years includes owning and operating an engraving shop. I had 4 Xenetech rotarys and a Xenetech 100 watt laser. I engraved everything from plastic to stainless. We sold the shop last year and I am committed to selling and servicing Xenetech products.
Xenetech has absolutely the best engraving equipment in the market today. I must not have been listening well enough to your questions and I am sorry about that. If I can ever be of assistance I will do my best to help.
Jim Golden
From: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#12]
9 Nov 2005
To: trophyman (MIKEBERGER) [#6] 10 Nov 2005
Mike,
Your comment is not far off. While I was working for Xenetech at the time, I knew nothing about the purchase of rights to the Meistergram products until after the deal was completed. Meistergram was far from Xenetech's main competition. However, the owners of *all* other machines were "easy prey" for Xenetech salesmen but we couldn't *touch* owners of the HSqaure/Meistergram! Kill the rascals, is right!
Meistergram's heavy investment into laser technology carried, I believe, more weight in the decision than the impenetrable mechanical market.
From: Newt (NEWTOENGRAVING) [#13]
10 Nov 2005
To: Jim (JIMG) [#11] 10 Nov 2005
Jim,
You wrote,"Xenetech has absolutely the best engraving equipment in the market today.
That is a very strong, although vague statement. I am fairly new to this, but have been looking at several of the different manufacturers. The Quest engraver looked like the most rugged engraving machine that I have seen so far, but I would welcome you telling me how the xenetech table is better constructed. I am also very impressed with the Gerber Dimension 200. I am having trouble deciding for myself which is the best hardware, so I look forward to your comments on what makes one engraving table better than another.
I sincerely appreciate your help,
Newt
From: JHayes55 [#14]
10 Nov 2005
To: BrianC (INKSQUIRTER) [#13] 10 Nov 2005
Brian
I was not at the Chicago show- so I do not have an opinion of what happened. What I do know is that Jim Golden is a very sincere man and if you felt slighted by him it was not his intent. Jim has always been helpful, knowledgable, honest and open to talk with. That is my opinion as well as others who have done business with him. Let's be honest, we all have our off days and situations we wish we could take back.
I have been looking at an additional purchase of a larger mechanical engraver - I have looked at all the brands at the shows including Las Vegas. We have not made up our mind what we will buy or when. Jim has taken to the time to come to the far end of his territory to show me the machine first hand - none of the other companies has done that. New Hermes told me they were coming but they were a "No-Show" and never called to explain why.
I do not own a Xenetech nor do I work for them. I would only suggest that since Jim had the courage to come onto a public forum and apologize to you that you at least give him a chance to make it right. If a prospective customer came to you and left with same feeling that you left the show with wouldn't you like to have that second chance to make it right?
My 2 cents worth.
EDITED: 10 Nov 2005 by JHAYES55
From: Jim (JIMG) [#15]
10 Nov 2005
To: Newt (NEWTOENGRAVING) [#13] Unread
I beleive that this equipment is the most versatile partly because of the software development and the tables are rigid enough for most aplications.
The engraving shop I operated, engraved and paint filled the words FIRE EXTINGUISHER in literally thousands of stainles steel doors.
This was a ongoing job for about 6 years and had no ill afects on the machine.
That was enough to convince me that the machine was very tough.
Jim
From: clay (CLAY_J1955) [#16]
10 Nov 2005
To: Jim (JIMG) [#15] 10 Nov 2005
Hi Jim
I have been around xenetch since the "GEM" days , and i bet there are not 10 people on this board that knows what that means, but i have to differ with you on the iron. My shop has both tables, the vision and the xenetech and in my opinion there is'nt 15 cents worth of difference between the two.
we beta tested the xenetech software for years. in the early days. there were lots of problems mainly because JAY was trying to keep up with everyone else and never quite finished the fixes for the previous versions. to this day i still dont like the arctext routine, but thats me. i would have no problem recomending xenetech to anyone, i have no 1st hand knowledge of what visions high end software is like, as we only have the entry level software.
if someone really wanted good hardware i would have to recommend multicam, and no i dont sell it!!
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#17]
10 Nov 2005
To: clay (CLAY_J1955) [#16] 10 Nov 2005
Clay, I know.
I knew Jay nearly from the beginning and we used to discuss coding and especially optimization routines.
I am truly amazed that the company has been able to keep up with his vision of what software really should be. Keeping up with others was never his style, he had to be better and inventive. Whenever I think about him, I miss him.
He has left us a legacy of his daughters, we are in very good hands.
From: clay (CLAY_J1955) [#18]
10 Nov 2005
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#17] 10 Nov 2005
Harvey
i think everyone who knew Jay misses him, I met him at the 1st dahlgren meeting held in dallas, i think we owned the 11th dahlgren and he had the 8th, something like that. I didnt know anything about code but we did discuss what engraving machines should do. We beta tested his TUESDAY program, that was and improvment to the original dahlgen program. he was very inovative with the software
From: logojohn [#19]
10 Nov 2005
To: ALL
For close to 10 years we have been using Xenetech 16x25's.
You can do a search for Xenetech to see some of my other raves.
Here are some things to consider.
Xenetech keeps software and hardware up to date as technology improves. Some companies might make you buy a new model. We only had do buy new pci cards and software to update from older computers to windows xp and were up-to-date again.
The bridge raises to about 7" (standard not optional) so you can clamp thick items or large vices. I clamp on a vice from a Hermes Pantograph!
You can customize the right click mouse menu so the things you use most are 1 click away.
32 bit software for file management through the Xenetech job menu. You can open multiple XGW windows to preview or prepare jobs while another is running.
It has been close to 10 years with these 3 machines and there has been almost no replacement parts needed other than belts and brushes that wear out.
There is a built in hatch fill routine for easily filling logos and truetype fonts. You can alter the angle, spacing and whether the lines are connected.
The auto sensing and cutter up can be adjusted to allow for non flat items and has enough travel to step over rims or handles in trays etc.
With a 1/4 inch spindle the cutter is thick enough to drop down about 2 inches to get close to the side of a deep obstruction.
You can color code the job for cutter changes and step foward and back through the job.
From: BrianC (INKSQUIRTER) [#20]
10 Nov 2005
To: JHayes55 [#14] 10 Nov 2005
You said:
"I would only suggest that since Jim had the courage to come onto a public forum and apologize to you that you at least give him a chance to make it right. If a prospective customer came to you and left with same feeling that you left the show with wouldn't you like to have that second chance to make it right?"
I am more than willing to give Xenetech a chance to show me what they have. I went to the show (over 5 hour drive) expecting to see the machines in action. I guess I was just a little (alot) disappointed I could not see much of a demonstration with the machine I went to see. I have no doubt Jim is a very nice and capable man and I probably didn't give him a chance due to my disappointment with the Xenetech booth.
I am not sure of the value of a trade show I guess. It would be nice if a prospective buyer was able to see some of the machines capabilities. At the Universal booth, my son was able to get a wooden box engraved (thanks to Cary at Laser Reproductions). The rep had no problems doing it for him and I wonder why other companies aren't willing to run a few different jobs to see a little bit how the machine functions (and I'm not just talking about Xenetech here).
I will be contacting my local rep to get a demo of the equipment soon.
Jim,
Sorry if I offended you in my previous posts.
EDITED: 10 Nov 2005 by INKSQUIRTER
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