Full Version: Need 11/64th collet for cutter grinder
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3]
11 Nov 2005
To: sroehlk (ELECTECH1) [#1] 11 Nov 2005
Steve,
I imagine the new grinders use the same collets.
You'll probably have to buy one from Gravograph.
When I bought my used CG4, I needed an additional collet. Collets are basically a-dime-a-dozen. Well, unless you have a New Hermes cutter grinder.
Standard collets won't fit the machine, because NH puts a slot on the side of their collets that interlocks with a "ridge" inside the area where the collet fits.
If you're a machinist, you could probably alter a stock collet. If not, expect to pay $60(?) for a collet that you can buy elsewhere for $15.00.
The good news, is, you only have to buy it once. :-)
EDITED: 11 Nov 2005 by DGL
From: sroehlk (ELECTECH1) [#4]
11 Nov 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3] 11 Nov 2005
Thanks for the info.
I did notice the collet I have is a custom type. I do have access to a machine shop where I can have things done for no cost!!
I am thinking about boring out the 1/8" that came with the grinder. I will never have a use for it anyway. Not sure I will be able to do this but I am going to look into it.
$60 does seem a little steep.
Maybe someone has an 11/64" that will trade for the 1/8"!
Steve
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#5]
11 Nov 2005
To: sroehlk (ELECTECH1) [#4] 13 Nov 2005
I have three collets. 1/4", 3/16" and 1/8".
The 1/8" diameter is a common cutter diameter for Dahlgren Wizzard rotary machines and New Hermes bevelers.
If boring out the 1/8" collet gets you where you need to be, go for it. If you ever need an 1/8" diameter, you can have a standard collet "customized" or Gravogrpah will be happy to sell you one. :-)
I'm just guessing at the $60 amount. I bought my collet years ago. At the time it was $50.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#6]
11 Nov 2005
To: sroehlk (ELECTECH1) [#4] 13 Nov 2005
Do not attempt to bore the collet. It is super hardened at the grabbing surface. It will grab the bit and rip it out of any vice, or break the bit.
The bore is also a special size. It is made to be a perfect circle at the marked size when open a little bit, for grabbing faintly undersized items.
There is an extra slot in the New Hermes collets to accept the pin inside the collet holder. I found NH to be 4X-6X the price of the standard collet, but cheaper than buying a standard collet and having a machine shop grind the bore in it. I bought it from NH.
From: sroehlk (ELECTECH1) [#7]
13 Nov 2005
To: ALL
Boring is out, it is hardened.
The new ones are $119.00.
I am very seriously considering reselling the whole thing. I saw this on ebay and thought I needed one. I have never even sent a cutter out to be re sharpened! It was just one of those days, I saw this cutter going for around $300 and put a bid in.
Anyway, thanks for the responses.
Steve
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#8]
13 Nov 2005
To: sroehlk (ELECTECH1) [#7] 14 Nov 2005
Have you seen the price of new cutter grinders? They're more than $420.
You've never sent a cutter out for resharpening? How much routing have you done?
From: sroehlk (ELECTECH1) [#9]
16 Nov 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#8] 16 Nov 2005
I have looked at the new sharpeners, saw some in the $1200 dollar range.
I really am not doing much rotary engraving right now. I am doing some diamond drag. I have never had to send out a cutter yet!
Anyway I am going to put this sharpener on Ebay today or tomorrow.
It has a little rust that does not affect operation. It has an 1/8" collet and full instructions. Plus a loupe thingy for looking at the tip with size lines to help.
It has 2 grinding wheels, regular and diamond.
It is the CG4 newhermes, if you were selling what would you want out of it?
EDITED: 11 Jun 2006 by ELECTECH1
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#10]
16 Nov 2005
To: sroehlk (ELECTECH1) [#9] 17 Nov 2005
I use the same tip guage and paid $100 for it in 1988.
Your machine is in better shape than mine ever was and I think I paid $400 for mine, in 1988.
It was actually the first piece of equipment I bought for my soon-to-be business. I can't imagine a shop that does rotary engraving without one.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#11]
17 Nov 2005
To: sroehlk (ELECTECH1) [#9] 17 Nov 2005
That machine is in excellent shape. There is a huge amount of diamond wheel left compared to what I have. Mine is Serial 4419, much more recent but used by non experts heavily for many years before I got it. (It came with about 50 ground to the bone bits, unusable, and they said that they had thrown out many hundreds before.)
It cost me $350, if I remember correctly, and was part of a shutdown of a department where all was going cheap.
The only drawback with me is that you cannot do carbide burnishing bits, cannot get to all four 90* angles without remounting the bit-then is is faintly inaccurate after remount. [Also I have to remember how to use it each time, duh.]
From: clay (CLAY_J1955) [#12]
17 Nov 2005
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#11] 17 Nov 2005
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#13]
17 Nov 2005
To: clay (CLAY_J1955) [#12] 17 Nov 2005
Most of my burnishing cutters are diamond. They work just *so* much better than carbide. They do not come in large sizes though, so some are carbide.
I make do with the reseating, I am fairly accurate with the reset. I only had to start from scratch once so far. Thank goodness that unless used improperly a burnisher lasts a long time.
From: sroehlk (ELECTECH1) [#14]
17 Nov 2005
To: clay (CLAY_J1955) [#12] 17 Nov 2005
I would like to know what you mean with your post?
Are you accusing me of being dishonest or what?
I do not know who you are but your way off base here and I am taking this very personally. What exactly do you think I am fishing for?
I guess you know me personally and know my business situation and all that goes with to be able to make such a statement.
Really, no one sells a cutter grinder with a rotary machine, I am.
Steve
(has a rotary engraving and am thinking about selling a cutter grinder)
From: sroehlk (ELECTECH1) [#15]
17 Nov 2005
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#11] 17 Nov 2005
I am not sure who had this machine. I got it off of ebay. I did not even know it had the tip comparator and the extra wheel. I guess those really were good bonuses.
But with it I have a lot of hand written notes on what worked and what did not. A lot of it does not make sense yet because I don't have any 1/8" cutters, only the 11/64" that my newing hall uses so I haven't even tried anything with it yet.
I see cutters like this on ebay quit a bit, like mine going for around $300 - $400.
Sound like you think I got a good deal.
From: Jim (PUZZLEHEAD) [#16]
17 Nov 2005
To: sroehlk (ELECTECH1) [#15] 17 Nov 2005
Fishing Expedition? Sounds good to me. I love fishing. If the cutter grinder came with a fishing trip, I would bid on it. I bet you could use the diamond wheel to sharpen fish hooks.
My cutter grinder sat unused for the first couple years after I bought my business. I use it almost everyday now. I am extremely happy that I kept it even though I wasn't using it at first. If I were you I would go ahead an buy the new collet and start learning to use the grinder so that when you do need it, you will be prepared. Many of my biggest customers do engraving in house but they send me their larger or more complicated work. I also sharpen their cutters for them. Now when a potential customer tells you they do their own engraving, you still have a service you can offer them. Many of those potential customers may use 1/8" cutters, so you are all set to do that size also.
I am close to Chicago, but I get down your way once in a while. If you get the 11/64"collet, I would be happy to stop by and help you get up and running with it.
Happy fishing,
Jim
From: sroehlk (ELECTECH1) [#17]
17 Nov 2005
To: Jim (PUZZLEHEAD) [#16] 17 Nov 2005
I am not a big on fishing. But thats just me. Now if there is cold beer on this fishing trip I'm in. Appreciate the offer on stopping by. I did read a thread about someone learning to use the sharpener. Looks like there is a learning curve but once you get it, its not to bad.
I understand your point, and I think the others here are on the same thinking path as you. But, I do think this would sit for a while and I could really use that money for other things right now. That is why I have kept an eye on ebay, sharpeners come up regularly. I really should have waited and not bought this one but kinda got caught up in getting one right now.
In fact I bought my newing hall NH 300 off of ebay. I got a good deal on it too. What did people do before ebay?
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18]
17 Nov 2005
To: sroehlk (ELECTECH1) [#14] 17 Nov 2005
I'm with Jim on this one.
Naturally, you're free to do what you want with your cutter grinder, but I'd suggest hanging onto it and learning how to use it.
You may not do much rotary engraving now, but why limit your offerings to diamond drag?
Before I had my own grinder, I would send cutters out, with mixed results. If a cutter weren't performing properly, I was dead-in-the-water.
Everyone should have a niche.
With the increasing trend toward lasers, those with diamond-drag capability are becoming scarce. Those with drag and rotary capability, even more scarce.
I'm not saying there isn't good money in following the crowd, but there are even more lucrative avenues away from the mainstream.
Edit: I read your post to Jim. As you say, you could use the money now and there are more where that came from.
EDITED: 17 Nov 2005 by DGL