Full Version: Engravelab - Yes or No
From: Johnny Orange (LIFETIME) [#1]
22 Nov 2005
To: ALL
EDITED: 22 Nov 2005 by DGL
From: Rose (RSLIEPKA) [#2]
25 Nov 2005
To: Johnny Orange (LIFETIME) [#1] 26 Nov 2005
I have Engrave Lab 4.95. I always loved it. I upgraded to version 6 so I could use Windows XP. It seemed to me they made the basic things a lot harder than they needed to be. I never could get the hang of it, I ended up going back to 4.95 and Windows 98
I'm sure some day I'll have to learn it, but for now I just don't have the time or patience.
From: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#3]
26 Nov 2005
To: Johnny Orange (LIFETIME) [#1] 26 Nov 2005
Newing Hall AMC-1, AMC-2 or HPGL ??
If E7.1 is XP specific then AMC-1 will not run on XP......
.
From: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#4]
26 Nov 2005
To: Johnny Orange (LIFETIME) [#1] 26 Nov 2005
Johnny... if you want to know 'first hand' contact CADLink directly or a local retailer and they will let you try the 'full version' free for 30 days ... and this is a full version .. not one that has been stripped down or is not usable to actually do your engraving with.
Good Luck
From: Myyk [#5]
26 Nov 2005
To: Rose (RSLIEPKA) [#2] 26 Nov 2005
Rose,
I totally agree with you. We have used version 4.95 for years, but purchased a new Vision Max which came with version 6.
In short, I dislike the program intensely, even though I use it every day.
Things that were simple with version 4.95 now seem much more difficult and results are sometimes unpredictable.
Any one got to grips with the decorative border function? It was quite simple and logical in v4.95, but I'm never sure whether the border is going to inside or outside the blank size now.
Never mind, the main problem is probably that older I become, the dumber I get.
From: Rose (RSLIEPKA) [#6]
26 Nov 2005
To: Myyk [#5] 26 Nov 2005
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#7]
28 Nov 2005
To: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#4] 29 Nov 2005
John,
Have YOU tried the "trial" version personally? I have engrave dog six and I simply cannot stand it. Has there been any improvment in the interface?
I would be happy to try again if they "CADLINK" has cleaned it up a bit. The version I have seems to be a stripped down version of their Signlab software........
From: Trophyman [#8]
28 Nov 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#7] 29 Nov 2005
Yes you are right, it is a different version of the signlab software - as is the new version of colourbyte software for the millenium machines.
I have dabbled with the new engravelab software and found it to be quite good, if not a little hard to work out, but that's just me being new to the product.
John, Tom from Project Engraving sent over the Vision demo disk, which at $1900 AUS is a much cheaper version of a similar thing.
cheers,
Phil
From: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#9]
29 Nov 2005
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#7] 29 Nov 2005
Chuck ... Alexa and I went over 'the hill' to a Roland Dealer that offered to demo it to us. While he is the 'official' dealer of Roland Products in Washington, his main 'bread and butter' is more involved in large format printing and vinyl cutting, etc ... not in engraving per se. We spent a few hours there watching him fiddle with the software and one of Roland's larger engravers, a EGX600 (God, it was huge!) but it crashed at least a half dozen times. To be fair to him I don't know if it was a software issue or an interface with the pc/engraver or 'operator error'. I thought overall it had some nices features, but most of which I allready can utilize with either Corel or Dr. Engrave, which is a very 'stripped down' engraving software program.
Needless to say most of our time was wasted on trying to get it to engrave anything at all so we were very disappointed.
He arranged the software to be sent to us and I received it about 3 weeks ago but since it is for a 30 day trial and we are in the holiday season and am still working on getting my sublimation projects out (sastisfactorily) I haven't yet installed the software. I am, however, looking forward to trying it out and seeing what it will do.
My principal interest in this software was to get the engraving fonts that I really need since Roland's software doesn't include much at all but will use all truetype fonts, which while beautiful, take upwards of 10 times longer to engrave.
When I try it out (after first of year I suspect) I will let you know.
From: Myyk [#10]
29 Nov 2005
To: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#9] 30 Nov 2005
Please explain why true type fonts take "up to 10 times longer to engrave".
In my experience this is not so even comparing single line fonts to a thin True type font like "sans". Engraving fonts (well, the ones in EngraveLab) seem faster in parts, but as many of them lift the spindle more than once to complete a letter, the time taken for the actual job is not much less than true type which cuts the outline in one operation.
If you use a font that rquires filling, then there can be a problem.
Any one else have contrary opinion?
IMHO, the results when using truetypes are worth the exra time involved except when doing industrial work like electrical labelling.
I have never had a customer complaint about True type font even when using only outlines, which we do most of the time. Many clients like to specify font styles and it's not easy to meet their demands without using common true type fonts. (and most of them are free!)
I also have an issue with the word spacing in engraving fonts, but that's a matter of preference I guess
EDITED: 29 Nov 2005 by MYYK
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#11]
30 Nov 2005
To: Myyk [#10] 30 Nov 2005
If you do a Helvetica type font it takes about 2.5 x using a TTF rather than an engraving font, 2 lines rather than one.
If you need a filled font like Roman an engraving font will take far less time than a filled TTF.
For outlines only the average would be about the same as a two line font. (Mileage will vary on the specific font.)
From: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#12]
30 Nov 2005
To: Myyk [#10] 30 Nov 2005
Hi Myyk ... my experience utilizing my Roland EGX300 with true type fonts (filled) vs a single line and then a 3 line roman font took this much time: 7 minutes; 12 minutes and 110 minutes, respectively. This was a plate layout approximately 8 x 10" and heavily laden with text as well as a graphic.... the graphic would take the same time irrespective of font used tho.
I prefer the look of the true type fonts filled tho but with these kinds of time lines I can't possibly be competive and takes a horrendous amount of time to do a large amounts of projects. Again, I am utilizing a computerized engraver ... not a laser which would probably be comlpletely different time-wise. (wish I had one ... just not enough business here so far to justify the expense)
Hope that clarifies it better.
From: Myyk [#13]
30 Nov 2005
To: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#12] 30 Nov 2005
Thanks John,
If you do not have use of line fonts, you can improve your results by careful selection of true type. Fonts that spring to mind are Sans, Basic and the Clearly Gothic and Romans. Admittedly still not as fast as line fonts, but coupled with good cutter size matching, not too bad.
My experience comes from using a program called Wing3 (Coreldraw5 bridging program, now defunct) which could only utilise true type fonts. It gave me excellent results and I loved it, but sadly it only ran under Windows 3.1 and NT4.
From: logojohn [#14]
30 Nov 2005
To: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#12] 30 Nov 2005
hatched filled true type fonts. It takes more time - charge more.
It is a very good looking product when done properly and can easily
be sold at an upscale premium.
It takes a lot longer but we charge 3 times as much for drag engraved filled true type fonts as opposed to 3 line engraving fonts. We did a time test when we were first able to offer it and settled on that. Yes, people pay it for the nicer look. Many times they just do the recipients name in tt and use an engraving font for the rest. We have one regional company that insists on drag engraved truetype for tiny plates. The letters are sometimes under 1/8 inch. If they want to pay it we will sell it.
It is somewhere over 75% for gift items, especially large letters on trays or metal signage.
If your market won't support that much more you could at least offer a choice of filled truetype for maybe 10-20% more which will cover some or all of the extra time. If you are busy all the time, come up with a cost equal to the extra time. If they buy it, fine, if not you can go home on time.
Obviously lasered black brass plates are bold and a lot easier but for some reason almost all our customers will pay more for hatch filled truetype drag engraving.
Some truetype fonts look better than others with just the outline engraved. Usually the narrower fonts look better since the lines are closer and you don't just have a big hollow letter. This is especially true for script fonts. We charge the regular engraving font price if not hatch filled in.
Xenetech has an option to adjust the spacing between all lettters and/or words equally in truetype or engraving fonts in addition to auto kerning weak letters. If there are certain letter combinations that need to be adjusted individually, it can be done easily with the edit-ini file through the engraving menu.
You can click the underlined words for an example.
.
From: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#15]
30 Nov 2005
To: logojohn [#14] 1 Dec 2005
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16]
30 Nov 2005
To: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#15] 1 Dec 2005
I read, in another thread, where you were struggling with sublimation (to some extent).
If you want to blow the doors off the competiton, with full-color sublimation, not only can you prodce plaques much faster, than with TT fonts, (or even engraving fonts, for that matter), but you can produce designs that can't be touched with engraving or laser machines.
Think about it. With sublimation, you're working with a blank canvas. Oh sure, you can wait for blanks suppliers to come up with something new, (for laser or engraving applications), or you can beat them to the punch, with something of your own.
There's a reason the familiar addage is alive and well - Sublimation. The possibilities are limited only by your imagination - that's because it's true!
EDITED: 30 Nov 2005 by DGL
From: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#17]
1 Dec 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16] 1 Dec 2005
Gee David ...don't you remember when you, me and 'hula boy' )sorry Chuck) walked thru the different sublimation booths last year? he he he... 'course you also talked me into the HP 4550 LaserJet Color printer and I got it and a 1280 w/ Artainium+ Inks ... yep! I prefer to do MOST of my plates with sublimation (generally with toner) ... it is my preferred way to go... no limitations, excellent borders, unlimited choice of fonts, colors, metal, etc ...
Hope I didn't give you too bad of a time? :-)
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18]
1 Dec 2005
To: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#17] 1 Dec 2005
Yes, I remember our little group making the rounds. Kind of like the townspeople marching toward Frankenstein's castle. The only difference being, because of Fire Dept. regulations, we weren't wielding flaming torches. :-)
I just didn't know if you were producing award plaques with your sublimation equipment.