Full Version: Joining Promotional Products Association
From: Becca (BECLYON) [#3]
12 Jan 2006
To: logojohn [#2] 12 Jan 2006
Hi logojohn,
You are correct. I laser a product that is an alternative to plaques and some others and I want ASI people to sell it for me. I didn't realize those with the lasers were doing the selling in ASI. So, they just use ASI for good deals on raw materials or supplies?
I take it from your response that I will see a significant increase in sales by joining ASI, right? In other words, it would be worth the money? I have been considering how to manage such an increase - like hiring part-time help as needed. I would think that if I am working to capacity then it is worth it regardless. Or, are the jobs usually such a quick turn-around that it wouldn't be feasible?
Do most small laser businesses only have one laser? I have the Epilog Mini 24x12 35 Watt.
Thanks for your help.
Rebecca
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#4]
12 Jan 2006
To: Becca (BECLYON) [#3] 12 Jan 2006
A friend of mine recently visited a few trophy shops in SoCal, where he found an average of two lasers per shop. Don't know if that's the norm, but it wouldn't surprise me.
From: Russ (MEATSHAKE) [#5]
12 Jan 2006
To: Becca (BECLYON) [#3] 12 Jan 2006
Rebecca,
We have only been doing the lasering for a little bit longer than you have. We got ours back in March. If you are wanting to do the kind of volume it sounds like I would think that you would need at least one other laser and I would make it a larger and higher wattage machine.
We have an Epilog 32EX 35watt and there are a number of times that I have thought we needed a larger and higher wattage to get things out faster.
Is your product something that multiples can be run at one time or do you have to do them one at a time? If you can do multiples now, how many more could you do if you had a 32" or 36" table? How long does it take you to run the job now? How many do you think you could get done on a higher wattage, since you can run a little faster with a higher wattage?
Just some thoughts. I just can't see myself trying to bite off that amount of possible work even with my laser. I have thought about going higher volume and the only way I even want to think about it is with a 36" in 50 to 100 watts. Am I way off base? Those who have been doing this a lot longer than I, please tell me if I'm right or wrong.
From: Becca (BECLYON) [#6]
12 Jan 2006
To: ALL
Good point. We are dealing with a smaller laser. However, would it always be 1000's of the product or is there a market for 100's or fewer in promotional products. Could I capture the smaller jobs yet not be stuck with the 1z-2z jobs I get now? That would be my goal. If all goes well with the investment in ASI, I'd love a larger laser and some part-time help. Is it worth it with what I've got? My husband shies away from any more debt without proof we can pay it off (reasonably so).
I am avoiding sales. I am good at networking but not cold calling. I've had poor return on advertising with a former business so I shy away from it, especially since I don't have a storefront.
I was hoping joining ASI would be a good fit considering.
Thoughts?
From: Becca (BECLYON) [#7]
12 Jan 2006
To: ALL
By the way, I've done 50 of our larger 12" round plaque/tribute and it was intense but could see doing more. It would probably take a week to do 75-100 with some graphic design. Our plaque/tributes can be tedious work because of the fine detail cutting involved.
We just finished 750 coasters. That went very smoothly and I enjoyed it intensely. Much different than the above because I can do more at one time and laser time is small.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#8]
12 Jan 2006
To: Becca (BECLYON) [#7] 12 Jan 2006
Rebecca,
If you receive high volumes of work and truly want to become an ASI supplier, you may want to investigate a YAG Galvo system.
Difference in speed is astounding.
As a rough example, I once had an order for wooden sand timers, that required a logo on each end.
Running time for one logo, on a CO2 (flying optics) system, was about 2.5 minutes. Same logo on a YAG (steered beam) system was "maybe" 10 seconds.
It's been awhile, but I think the running time was actually less than 10 seconds.
EDITED: 12 Jan 2006 by DGL
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#9]
12 Jan 2006
To: Becca (BECLYON) [#3] 12 Jan 2006
Hi Rebecca,
Look before you leap into ASI. Check into the manufacturing side of SAGE. They are much lower cost for the distribution side, so I assume they will be more cost friendly the other way as well.
One thing you need to think about is competition. What you will find with an ASI or SAGE network is that the people buying have resources to compare your pricing to thousands of others that offer the same products that you do. Most pick the lower or lowest price depending on how that vendor is rated by the people that have used them.
This means that if my customer asked me as an ASI "distributor" to buy a laser engraved plaque, that there would be a search function that would bring up all the member "manufacturers" that make such a product. It would allow me to check for pricing and company performance.
Trust me.....The pricing is very compeditive. My guess is that if your pricing was low enough, you would be very busy, but not necessarily profitable. It may be a great opportunity for you, but you should really do some homework from the "manufacturing" side of the equasion.
Good luck and keep us informed on how things go.
Thanks,
Brian G.
From: Becca (BECLYON) [#10]
12 Jan 2006
To: ALL
Thanks Brian,
Do you have a website address for SAGE?
Good advice. My other option is to drum up sales locally. I have an idea of businesses to target with our products. But, it would require a visit to each one. How else do you get sales? Any suggestions for a different approach than ASI?
We had minimal success at smaller craft fairs, good success at large fairs but it is a whip setting up and taking down without additional help.
From: logojohn [#11]
12 Jan 2006
To: Becca (BECLYON) [#3] 12 Jan 2006
Ad Specialties is mainly selling. Since most products are ordered already personalized, there is usually no production work involved and many of them have no equipment. You don't have to know the mechanics of making the product, just enough to be knowledgeable enough to sell it. I think this is the majority. That might be your primary market. We actually do wholesale work for several of them on plaques, acrylics and badges. (We ship under their name and don't try to steal their customers.)
Most people here have lasers and/or engraving equipment and have a retail storefront or work from home. They focus on making or at least personalizing products they buy or make from scratch. Selling is important but since many wear all hats they only spend a portion of the time selling and more time actually making what they sell.
Some places combine the two. Since people are coming in to buy Awards or other products, it is a natural to offer Ad Specialties to a captive market without having to beat the bushes constantly. If it is a lasered or engraved item they would do it in house but many Specialty items with other marking methods are ordered in complete. You might have a market here if it is a unique item that is to difficult or time consuming to do with their own laser.
Others like us have sales people who focus only on selling Ad Specialties and others to wait on awards customers that come in.
I really don't have any idea if all suppliers that list with ASI get a lot of business or if many of them are small operations. I have only seen posts from a couple here that do wholesale work on a large scale.
With higher cost items we often order 1 or a few but it can be several thousands of things like pens and clothing. With the product you describe, I guess it would not normally be a huge number per order.
.
From: Becca (BECLYON) [#12]
12 Jan 2006
To: logojohn [#11] 12 Jan 2006
So far, we are the type of business that has a laser and makes the product from scratch or etches on materials supplied wholesale. We got business from craft fairs mostly.
I was just considering a new approach. We are low on cash so ASI or Sage may not be the best way to go.
I'm not sure hiring someone to help would be possible considering margins at fairs aren't real high for us (at least not the small ones). Although, we do get leads that bring in additional sales.
I've attached an image of the product we have featured most since starting.
Thanks for all your comments.
EDITED: 12 Jan 2006 by DGL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#13]
12 Jan 2006
To: Becca (BECLYON) [#12] 12 Jan 2006
Rebecca,
I've resized your image, to a smaller file size, which will be viewable on our monitors, without having to scroll.
EDITED: 12 Jan 2006 by DGL
From: Becca (BECLYON) [#14]
12 Jan 2006
To: ALL
Thank you! Didn't realize it was so big.
The real hit with these plaques/tributes is doing custom centers with their organization's logo. We've done some real fun stuff. That is where I was headed with the ASI route.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#15]
12 Jan 2006
To: Becca (BECLYON) [#14] 12 Jan 2006
Rebecca,
I can see where your product could be used as an applique on award plaques or displayed in shadow boxes, to create what I find most impressive with plaques -- dimension.
EDITED: 12 Jan 2006 by DGL
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#16]
12 Jan 2006
To: Becca (BECLYON) [#14] 12 Jan 2006
A company called Lazer-Buzz has a whole line of those products out.
I have my own line of about 25 different items up on a wall in my store. Here on the east coast we get a lot of comments about how unique they are, but few sales. I think it is a mid-western type of item.
Pricing here does not seem to matter, same sales with a $20 price change.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#17]
12 Jan 2006
To: Becca (BECLYON) [#14] 12 Jan 2006
Rebecca,
I certainly don't mean to throw a wet blanket on your plans, but from what I've read so far, you may be heading down a road that ultimately could be enough to curb your youthful enthusiasm.
See if my experience with a high volume job resembles your situation at all.
http://www.engravingetc.org/forum/index.php?webtag=EE&msg=7.1
EDITED: 12 Jan 2006 by DGL
From: logojohn [#18]
12 Jan 2006
To: Becca (BECLYON) [#14] 12 Jan 2006
I work for an awards company with a lot of walk-in business traffic in Dallas.
I can't offer anything that takes that long to make in house with our volume.
If you want to bring one by I can display it and see what the feedback from customers is.
It would have to be altered or mounted on a plaque to allow for more wording, typically 4-12 lines.
You could get a lot more for it in the business market than at craft shows.
.
From: Becca (BECLYON) [#19]
12 Jan 2006
To: ALL
logojohn,
That's a great offer, thanks!
Maybe you'd be interested in meeting to discuss a bit about altering it for more text. I could treat you to lunch or coffee and dessert somewhere.
My email should be listed in my profile.
Looking forward to meeting with you.
Rebecca
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#20]
13 Jan 2006
To: Becca (BECLYON) [#10] 13 Jan 2006
Personally what works best for us is finding niche's that have needs. Find a niche that you can relate to (understand and speak the same language as the customers that fit that niche) that has a need, then target that niche with products that you know they can use.
The SAGE web site can be found at http://www.sageworld.com/
I am not trying to discourage you from trying to be a manufacturer for a SAGE or ASI, but you need to know that the margin's for the kind of work you will do for them are very low, so you need very efficient production techniques and equipment that is efficient to operate.......fast no nonsense production style equipment...
One thing that may work for you with a SAGE or ASI is to create a niche with something unique that no one else will be competing over.......Perhaps the best thing would be to combine the idea of a unique niche product and a SAGE or ASI.....Create a product that is unique to you (something unique that can be used as a promotional product that others aren't doing), and then market that product in the SAGE or ASI marketplace.
Brian G.
From: UncleSteve [#21]
13 Jan 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#20] 13 Jan 2006
One BIG caveat that must be mentioned is that many, if not most, distributors are avoiding more and more, suppliers that are two faced... that is, sell both retail AND to distributors.
This is a big thorn in both sides of the transactions!
From: BobH (EGCI) [#22]
13 Jan 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#20] 13 Jan 2006
I'm one of those award shops in Southern Cal that has a laser engraver. Only the larger or older shops have two or more. Some don't need a 2nd but they buy a new one when it's time and hold onto the old one as a back up (good plan).
Selling to Promotional Products retailer requies you to sell at wholesale prices. When selling wholesale, the retailer should be supplying camera-ready artwork. That rarely gives you a file ready to engrave and you end up doing retail work for wholesale prices, especially from the retailers who don't do any in-house production. This type of retailer rarely knows much about our business.
I won't sell a personalized product to a third party seller unless I am given the right to speak to the buyer and get all artwork approved by them. Mistakes are much more frequent when selling through others. Big orders that are wrong are big losses.
Most corporate awards focused shops sell promotional products tp thier customers and join ASI or PPAI as a reseller. This works well if it's part of the business plan but I suggest taking the time to get to know something about embroidery and pad & screen printing as well as clothing before selling too many promotional products. Mistakes can be very costly.