Full Version: Advice-Getting Started
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#18]
11 Sep 2004
To: ARAMember [#13] 11 Sep 2004
Justin,
I would agree that most rotary attachments for lasers will set idle for long periods of time. Mine did until I got hooked up with a manufacturer of goose, duck and turkey calls.
I still use my laser with laser resist material on flat items, as it helps tremendously in keeping the image lined up and centered correctly. With photo-resist it takes a good eye and more time to get things lined up and centered correctly.
EDITED: 11 Sep 2004 by DATAKES
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#19]
11 Sep 2004
To: precisionlaser [#14] 11 Sep 2004
Mark,
You would not be pleased with the results you get by vector-cutting laser resist material. This process actually creates a vector line in your glass that results in a deeper etch than the rest of your image. Some people use this process, but a customer that has an eye for detail will notice this and not be pleased.
From: precisionlaser [#20]
11 Sep 2004
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#19] 11 Sep 2004
David, thank you for your posts...good info and very helpful to us! One last question: knowing what you know now as an experienced blaster, how would you approach adding sand blasting to your operation? Any specific suppliers, equipment, etc.? How much money would be reasonable to expect to need to spend to set up a reasonable "getting started" environment?
Thanks again!
Mark
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#21]
11 Sep 2004
To: precisionlaser [#20] 12 Sep 2004
Mark,
I have offered sandcarving from the start of my business about three and a half years ago. I would not change any of the equipment I started with and continue to use today.
Before I opened my business I had the free time to take a week-long workshop with Norm and Ruth Dobbins in Duluth, MN. Wow, was that the best decision I have ever made during the start-up of my business.
Next to sublimation, glass etching has the most affordable start-up costs of any of the methods used to personalize products. With that being said, it is also one of the most labor intensive processes that needs to and does command a premium price.
The initial equipment investment has quite a range to it. A quality start-up system will include the following.
1. Blasting Cabinet w/attached pressure pot and dust collector - $2,595
2. Letrilite Exposure Unit - $255
3. Photo Resist Film Dryer - You can use a blow dryer, but it makes more sense to use a drying cabinet so you can start another job as your film is drying. - $290
4. Air Compressor - The best measure of a compressor's capacity is the volume of air it produces, not its horsepower. Volume is measured as CFM (cubic feet per minute) and is always rated at a certain air pressure. It is my understanding that the best compressors for blasting are rated at a minimum of 11.5 CFM at 90 PSI. I would try to get a compressor that will produce twice the air consumed by your blaster.
5. Washout Area - You will need an area to wash out the exposed film. This has been accomplished in many ways. I use a mop sink with an acrylic enclosure that helps to contain the overspray. I have seen others use simple utility sinks. This requirement is wide open to your creativity. At Photobrasive they have a custom stainless unit that has a white acrylic backlit area that allows you to see through your film as you wash it out. Nice!!!
6. Laser or Inkjet Printer - Most of us are in pretty good shape in this area. I use a cheap, small HP1012 LaserJet. Some laser printers are finiky about the way they handle and print on the vellum paper that is required in the photo resist development process.
There are some suppliers that are now offering an inkjet film that produces an image that is opaque enough to use in the exposure process. This film is much more expensive than the vellum that is used with laser.
7. Blasting Media - Aluminum Oxide or Silicon Carbide? I use silicon carbide because it is harder than aluminum oxide and cuts more quickly. It also does not create the static electricity that you get with aluminum oxide, which causes the dust to cling to the back of the glass while being blasted. This phenomenon makes it more difficult to see your work as it is being blasted. Aluminum oxide is half the cost of silicone carbide, but that isn't incentive enough for me to make the change.
There are some smaller incidentals you will need to get started. Items such as resist film, squeegees, replacement nozzles, U.V. glue, glass cleaner, razor blades, etc.
The most notable vendors for equipment are Photobrasive, Glastar and Rayzist. They make superior equipment and consumables geared for the small and volume producers in our industry.
A wealth of information on this subject can also be found at www.sandcarver.org.
EDITED: 12 Sep 2004 by DATAKES
From: precisionlaser [#22]
12 Sep 2004
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#21] 12 Sep 2004
David,
Thanks for your very comprehensive reply! I really appreciate the time you took to answer my question. I take it from your post that you must have a nice set up. Re: Norm and Ruth Dobbins, I had already contacted them a few months ago about their courses in NM, but I had wondered if it wouldn't be smarter to take the money I would spend on that trip and put it toward equipment. I'll take another look at them again.
Thanks again!
Mark
From: JHayes55 [#23]
12 Sep 2004
To: ARAMember [#13] 12 Sep 2004
<p><p>Does anyone else use their laser for mugs, flutes, etc?</p></p>
<p><p>How well does it work?</p></p>
<p><p>Justin</p></p>
<p><p>We do not currently sandblast. It is one process that I really want to get<br /><br />
into. Currently my biggest reason for not starting it is time. <br /><br />
To answer you questions we do use our rotary for mugs, wine glasses etc.<br /><br />
Mostly do these for weddings or gifts. By no means is the lasering the same<br /><br />
as deep cut sandblasting but since no one does sandblasting locally, the <br /><br />
laser glass is well accepted and sells well. They are quick and easy to<br /><br />
do once you get setup. We also do several Stainless Steel coffee mugs.<br /><br />
The biggest payback for the rotary came with a one time job engraving<br /><br />
6 lines of small text on 250 ignitors for drone planes. These were done<br /><br />
for a local company that could not mark on them in any other way. We built <br /><br />
a holder so they could be attached and turned by the rotary with precision.<br /><br />
the item had only a 3/4 inch long area to get 6 lines in and only about the size<br /><br />
of a quarter in diameter. This job paid for the rotary alone. I will try to take <br /><br />
some pics of some mugs I have done with art & text on and send them to you.<br /><br />
All in all I think laser glass has it's place but does not replace the sandblast <br /><br />
process.<br /><br />
Joe</p></p>
EDITED: 12 Sep 2004 by JHAYES55
From: ARAMember [#24]
12 Sep 2004
To: JHayes55 [#23] 12 Sep 2004
And that's my biggest hurdle when it comes to the glass....
I have built a sterling reputation for the etching we do, and i don't know if I'm willing to challenge that rep by starting to hand out what I feel is sub-standard marking in the laser.
It's not so much the single pieces or sets, but the 200 piece orders that I end up having to discount to get.
I'll do 3 mugs for $30 each all day, but when the customer needs 250, and the price starts creeping down towards $10 each, the smile that I usually have on my face while etching fades significantly. Whereas with the laser, I'm payn' a student $7.00/an hour to switch the mugs while making $50/ hour.
I'd really like to see a sample, and would be willing to pay for it and the shipping.
Justin
888.292.7373
Thanks!
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#25]
12 Sep 2004
To: precisionlaser [#22] 12 Sep 2004
Mark,
It would probably be wiser to invest in the Dobbins' video(s). I was able to purchase them a year after I took the seminar from an at-home business that never got off the floor. The tapes are very good and cover most of the questions you may have. If they don't, you know where to go to get the rest of them answered.
The tapes also serve as a great training tool for new production staff.
EDITED: 12 Sep 2004 by DATAKES
From: precisionlaser [#26]
12 Sep 2004
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#25] 12 Sep 2004
Thanks, David...I'll take a look at this today...sounds like a reasonable and cost-effective alternative.
Mark
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#27]
12 Sep 2004
To: ALL
My glass etching career was rather short-lived.
One reason was, most people weren't willing to pay my $40 minimum. Surely, a bit pricey for an inexpensive set of toasting goblets etc., but hardly highway robbery for an expensive piece of Waterford crytal etc.
Another reason was the health factor. Breathing aluminum oxide dust is bad news. Even with a respirator, I would sometimes get a little "wheezy" after blasting.
The final reason. As a one-man-band, there's only so much work I can perform in a day. I chose to narrow my focus to the most enjoyable and profitable work.
I now use a shop in Van Nuys, CA for my etching jobs. Very accomplished practitioner, whose price is so reasonable, I can mark up the work to everyone's satisfaction.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
EDITED: 12 Sep 2004 by DGL
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#28]
31 Oct 2004
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#25] 31 Oct 2004
David,
What are these tapes that you refer to?
Chuck Burke
Pacific LaZer Works
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#29]
31 Oct 2004
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#28] 31 Oct 2004
Chuck,
Below is a link to the website of glass etching "experts" Norm and Ruth Dobbins. They have put together some very good educational video tapes.
http://etchmaster.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=ES&Category_Code=V
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#30]
31 Oct 2004
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#29] 1 Nov 2004
David,
Thank you
Chuck Burke
Pacific LaZer Works
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