Full Version: Morning Problem #1
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#17]
28 Apr 2006
To: ALL
Print heads are a grid of jets that interleave and if one whole column of jets is not firing you get a set of evenly spaced stripes going side to side. Besides the clogging issues mentioned earlier, there are a few other possibilities. None of which bring good news.
It's possible that the print head is defective. Each column of jets share some electrical traces in the head and if the trace for a column breaks, that set of jets is broken.
It's also possible that one wire in the flexible wire going to the print head is bad. One wire can take out a whole column of jets.
Another possibility is a bad connection where the print head connects to the flex wire. That is usually a gold plated grid of contacts and not too likely to get a bad connection, but anything is possible. It can even happen from a small impurity in the gold mixture when manufactured. If it is a bad contact, it may be possible to remove the print head, clean the contacts, and put it back. I don't know what kind of printer you have and whether that is something that is simple to do.
If it's a bad head, you would need a new head. If it's a bad wire, that may be more difficult to replace than the head. If it's a bad contact, then that's the easiest and cheapest to fix of these three possibilities. Or it might be none of these. It's certainly a lot easier to clean clogged jets than to have to deal with any of the above.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#18]
28 Apr 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#14] 28 Apr 2006
New food for thought. If something stuck to the driver roller it would increase the amount of paper that is pulled at that instant when the gunk increases the diameter of the roller. Since the heads do not print all of the colors in the appropriate place at the same time, that could cause banding.
Try a sticky printer cleaning sheet from Staples.
One fairly simple sounding problem, too many possible causes.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#19]
28 Apr 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#18] 28 Apr 2006
If Ed's seeing banding in the Cyan segment of his purge pattern (separate blocks of his 6 colors) and if paper slippage were the problem, all colors would show evidence of the same type of banding.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#20]
28 Apr 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#19] 28 Apr 2006
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#21]
28 Apr 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#20] 28 Apr 2006
If he getting a good nozzle check on all colors, and the printer is printing accurately horizontaly and verticaly in tests that are made for that printer, it could be a software or file issue.....Has he checked more than one image for the problem? Is he sure that the nozzle checks are perfect?
I would really like to see pictures to help get closer to what the problem is...I hope that he shows the tests and the pattern that is being printed so we can get a better idea of what's going on.
In this case I think a picture is worth 1,000,000 words.....
From: gt350ed [#22]
28 Apr 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#21] 29 Apr 2006
Let me reiterate some things....
1. The printer is a fairly new 1280. The inks are Artainium in MIS spongeless carts. Just 4 days ago, I did a set of logo mugs, interestingly with blended blues. They came out esentially perfect.
2. I switched to another project: FRP name badges. The customer's logo has a darker red background.
3. When I printed the image on Accuplot transfer paper (always used), I noticed that the red background color had tightly spaced horizontal lines. I imprinted it anyway, thinking it might migrate and blend.
4. Although it did blend somewhat, the lines were still faintly visible in the finished product.
5. This caused me to print four (4) rectangles; not six as has been mentioned. The colors were black, magenta, yellow and CYAN.
6. Each of the rectangles were fine EXCEPT for the CYAN. The Cyan had tightly spaced horizontal lines.
7. Specifically, the height of each rectangle is slightly more than 7/8". Within this dimension, there are about 27 horizontal lines.
8. Upon magnified inspection, each line is absolutely straight and equally spaced, one from the other.
9. Also, upon magnifed inspection, each "line" appears to actually be a white (omitted color) and a darker shade of blue abutting each other to make the perceived "line".
My theory is that the reason that logo dark red background has lines is because the blue is mixing with magenta to make the shade of red. Does that make sense?
In any event, I cleaned the bottom of the printhead (I think), I've performed distilled water cleanings through the nozzles, I've cleaned at the docking pad (per Harvey), I've changed the paper thickness lever position, I've changed resolution from 1440 to 720 and I've performed the alignment test (yes, it's a "vertical" test).
My printed nozzle checks are perfect.
Interestingly, when I changed resolution to 720. I started to see these horizontal lines in all 4 color test rectangles. When the resolution is set to 1440, the lines only appear in the CYAN color rectangle.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#23]
28 Apr 2006
To: gt350ed [#22] 28 Apr 2006
That says a ton. Only thing I can come up with is that a port moved, (probably impossible), or is side spitting.
The only reasons I can think of for side spitting is some buildup on the edge of the port, or maybe a fracture on the edge of the port. The hand cleaning and the cup cleaning should have gotten rid of buildup, unless you missed that very spot, unlikely. I would try to clean under the heads again, leaving the saturated sponge pad there for about 10-20 minutes, then scrubbing again, That should guarantee all buildup is dissolved. After that I am out of ideas.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#24]
28 Apr 2006
To: gt350ed [#22] 28 Apr 2006
Ed,
I haven't used a 6-color printer, but I know MIS Associates has a 6-color purge pattern you can download. I imagine you know how to create one on your own.
If I were in your situation, I'd want to see printed patterns of all six colors, to determine if a color, other than cyan, is banding.
From: gt350ed [#25]
28 Apr 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#24] 28 Apr 2006
From: gt350ed [#26]
29 Apr 2006
To: gt350ed [#25] 29 Apr 2006
David L. had most recently correctly pointed out that I should be using a 6-color test pattern, versus the 4 CYMK pattern that I had been using. This might provide more clues and possibly narrow things down to, say, one nozzle.
In any event, I printed out the 6-color pattern this morning. First, with dye-sub color inks. With the 6-color pattern and dye-sub inks, ALL 6 colors showed the evil horizontal lines; some more subtle than others, but ALL had them.
Then I left the black dye-sub ink cart in, but put the Epson color ink cart in to replace the dye-sub color cart. I then printed the 6-color test pattern again. This time, my horizontal lines disappeared, EXCEPT for the black dye-sub ink that I left installed.
So, WISE ONES, now what do you think is going on?
From: JHayes55 [#27]
29 Apr 2006
To: gt350ed [#26] 29 Apr 2006
Your dye sub ink is clogging :'-( If normal ink prints well you would figure its the dye sub ink - is it possible that small particles are settling out to the bottom and causing a partial clog?
Sound like the mystery mug problem you helped me with a few months ago.
I feel for you. I really do. Sometimes I just hate dye sub process. When it right it is right when it's wrong you just want a hammer - a Big Hammer.
Hope you get it fixed - best of luck
EDITED: 30 Apr 2006 by JHAYES55
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#28]
29 Apr 2006
To: gt350ed [#26] 29 Apr 2006
That sounds like ink starvation from the dye-sub carts. That is also why you got a good nozzle check, far less ink used in a nozzle check.
Could the carts have a sponge that has broken down in every color, or maybe the cart is just bad. How much of the cart do you think you used? Are they out of date and maybe have settled? Ask your supplier if they have had these problems before.
Unfortunately, more info gets more questions until it gets figured out. But you sure have narrowed it down a lot into an area we did not pursue.
My friend has a bulk system for the 1280, (I think), and has had leaking bags. When she called the supplier they said it happens more often than they like and sent new bag. That is a good supplier. Laser Reproductions gets my vote for honesty and customer service.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#29]
29 Apr 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#28] 29 Apr 2006
Ed said he's using spongeless, refillable cartridges.
There's a definite difference in viscosity, between dye sub and OEM ink.
That would account for one ink (OEM) being able to print without banding.
I've seen people have the same reaction before, but can't remember if they were ever able to establish a reliable ink flow, when re-installing dye sub carts.
From: gt350ed [#30]
29 Apr 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#29] 29 Apr 2006
Yea, this latest scenario seems to strongly suggest that some really good head cleanings are in order, beyond what the software can accomplish.
I'm a fan of small amounts of distilled water syringed through the nozzles via a vinyl tube. Maybe I did not clean sufficiently. I know others have said that repeated cleanings of small amounts may be needed in some cases.
In the meantime, I've left the Epson cart in. Maybe running some of this ink thru the printheads will help prior to distilled water. Well see.
One thing's for certain. I can only futz around with this issue for about 2 more days. Orders are piling up.
What a biz....
Thanks, guys. I'll let you know.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#31]
29 Apr 2006
To: gt350ed [#30] 1 May 2006
That's the downside of ink jet sublimation. Some issues require time and patience.
With orders on hold, time and patience are in short supply.
If you need some bailout transfer printing, I'd be happy to help and I'm sure you'll find others willing to help as well.
From: logojohn [#32]
30 Apr 2006
To: ALL
I thought it was not a good idea to switch back and forth between normal ink and sublimation ink.
The first 2 c84's that was previously used with regular ink had constant problems.
We bought c86 and only put sublimation ink in them from the beginning. They have some minor problems like minute dots over the page on white substrates but no major clogging or printing problems.
It is still problemic matching colors and other minor surprises. But more and more people are wanting full color logos and photos. It is good to be able to offer some options. Large orders are sent out to a pad printer or screener but it is nice to be able to do some smaller things inhouse in short notice. A customer actually came to the back and hugged me because she was so excited about some colored membership wallet cards I did. We only mess with the things that we can charge enough for to make it worth the hassle. There is still some wasted products from mistakes but it is becoming less with more experience from previous workarounds.
.
EDITED: 30 Apr 2006 by LOGOJOHN
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#33]
30 Apr 2006
To: gt350ed [#30] 1 May 2006
If you needed a couple doorstops to hold some doors open in the shop, I've gone through a couple worthless bulk systems and printers in the past.
I'd be willing to help out with laser transfers where I could. I haven't had any clogging problems since going laser sub.
>.<
EDITED: 30 Apr 2006 by DATAKES
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#34]
30 Apr 2006
To: logojohn [#32] 30 Apr 2006
Were the minute dots you've seen on white substrates around areas of a scanned image? If so, were the dots mainly a very faint magenta?
From: logojohn [#35]
30 Apr 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#34] 30 Apr 2006
I try to use silver or gold metal or a shaded background that hides it when possible.
I have done the nozzle and printer cleaning through the menu and have ran paper towel through it as suggested earlier.
I have done a large badge order and some plaques with white background and nobody has complained yet. Just seems to be unavoidable unless you want to buy a new printer every month.
.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#36]
30 Apr 2006
To: logojohn [#35] 30 Apr 2006
So you're saying the backgrounding is across the entire plate?
Do you see it with "vector only" files; or files containing a combination of vector and bitmap?
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