Full Version: Preference for inks
From: Swami [#1]
2 May 2006
To: ALL
EDITED: 2 May 2006 by DGL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#2]
2 May 2006
To: Swami [#1] 2 May 2006
Basically, sublimation ink, is sublimation ink.
Here's where the three brands you've mentioned differ:
1) Sawgrass Technologies' Sublijet, comes with a PowerDriver which allows you to select a particular substrate, i.e. Unisub metal, Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic (FRP) or Fabric.
The PowerDriver makes adjustments for the substrate, which will render the most accurate color for each.
With that said, some manual tweaking may still be necessary for some files, but the PowerDriver should put you in a very good ball park.
Sublijet is the most expensive of the three brands you mentioned.
2) Tropical Graphics' ArTainium ink is supplied with an ICC (International Color Consortium) profile, which is meant to serve the same purpose as Sawgrass' PowerDriver, with the exception being, it's a single profile; meaning it was designed for a single paper, ink, substrate combination.
An ICC profile, regardless of substrate, will still put you in a good color ballpark.
There are third-party services offering custom ICC profiles, for a wider variety of paper, ink substrate combinations, such as www.jblgraphics.com or you can create your own with various products, i.e. Monaco. www.xritephoto.com
ArTainium, because they're a subsidiary of Sawgrass Technologies, is the second most expensive sublimation ink.
3) Texas Original Graphics' (TOG) Sublibrite ink, although not as heavily-marketed as the previously-mentioned inks, is every bit as worthy.
Sublibrite is supplied with an ICC profile and represents the least expensive of the three brands available in the U.S.
TOG vs Sawgrass Technologies court date is scheduled for October 2007.
More information on TOG vs. Sawgrass Technologies in this thread:
http://www.engravingetc.org/forum/index.php?webtag=EE&msg=1477.1
From: Swami [#3]
2 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) 2 May 2006
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#4]
2 May 2006
To: Swami [#3] 7 May 2006
I've been a user of ArTainium ink, although I wouldn't rule out Sublibrite, by any means.
I've continued to use ArTainium, mostly, because I believe in supporting my suppliers.
In the same way my customers support my business, by recognizing quality and service, above price, I feel the same way about supporting my suppliers.
I have the West Coast's Supershop of Sublimation, in the way of Coast Graphic Supply, within a 20 minute ride. Jim Cagnina is very knowledgeable, about all things sublimation and has become a good friend.
The way I see it, we're helping each other become successful. :-)
If I'd started with Sublibrite, I'd probably feel the same way.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#5]
2 May 2006
To: Swami [#3] 7 May 2006
When SubliBrite inks were sold by The Color Factory, I used them extensivly. Great sub inks. When TCF shut down and they were not available for a while, just when I needed a new batch, I went with Artanium. Also a good ink.
My prior experience with the original, now defunct, version of Sawgrass inks made me never want to deal with them again. At that time they were also rampant with customer service virtually lying about inks and problems. To the point that I still cannot forgive them.
From: Swami [#6]
7 May 2006
To: ALL
From: logojohn [#7]
7 May 2006
To: Swami [#6] 8 May 2006
I haven't found where I can get a workable icc profile. Where I buy the ink from doesn't have one. I hate to pay $35 for one and then find out it
doesn't work.
The colors on the screen are totally different than what prints.
Most blues print purple and red is very difficult to get.
I have gotten better at coming close to the color with only a few trys
but there has to be a better way.
.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#8]
7 May 2006
To: logojohn [#7] 7 May 2006
John,
I used to have the problem with the sky being quite purple. I was using a Corel picture as a basis of testing. When I finally did a real calibration on the old monitor, viola the sky had a lot of purple. Light blue through purple showed up as bright blue. After calibration it showed very close to the final pressing. It was quite a shock.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#9]
8 May 2006
To: Swami [#6] 8 May 2006
I never said ArTainium is the way to go. I just said that's what I use.
If I didn't already have a good relationship with a sublimation supplier, and many files adjusted, color-wise, for ArTainium, I'd probably use TOG's Sublibrite.
That personal decision would be based on the quality of the ink and it's price, as compared to the other options of Sublijet (Sawgrass) and ArTainium (Tropical Graphics, a subsidiary of Sawgrass).
You'll find, that printing through the Epson print driver, will most-often render (mostly) accurate colors, with most ink.
In reading TOG's instructions for using their ICC profiles, although something I've never heard of in other ink supplier's instructions, they instruct you to convert your graphic to a bitmap image before printing.
As always, we're happy to help in any way possible, but your ink supplier should be your first source for information pertaining to their products.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#10]
8 May 2006
To: logojohn [#7] 8 May 2006
If working with spot colors, (meaning individual colors not co-mingling with others), have you printed swatches of color squares to the various substrates you use?
Having that reference on hand, along with their corresponding RGB or CMYK color values, can significantly cut down on the dart throwing.
I won't tell you how to spend your money, but $35, compared to valuable time spent, manually working on color management, is a small investment.
From: logojohn [#11]
8 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#10] 8 May 2006
It turns out I am using sawgrass ink. The boxes only say that in the fine print.
I order from Johnson Plastics and they carry both and I thought I was using artanium.
I heard from them and they are sending me the sawgrass power driver so hopefully that will help.
One of the ASI people have another c86 hooked up to their mac. It does not have a separate driver but has an icc profile available through sawgrass that should work.
I did print squares of blues and reds since I needed it and didn't have time to do them all. It does help some for reference.
Hopefully with the new driver it won't take as much work.
.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#12]
9 May 2006
To: logojohn [#11] 9 May 2006
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#13]
9 May 2006
To: ALL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#14]
9 May 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#13] 10 May 2006
Mike,
For the benefit of the readers, could you tell us what type of paper you used, on which type of substrate and why one proved better than the other?
Thanks,
EDITED: 9 May 2006 by DGL
From: logojohn [#15]
9 May 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#13] 10 May 2006
I am also changing paper. I thought I was using artimium ink and Johnson Plastics listed truepix as the best paper for that.
Since I discovered I actually have Sawgrass ink I am switching to paper for Sawgrass ink.(ACCUPLOT) JP also has a generic Sawgrass approved version.
Their online site doesn't say which paper is best for which ink but their catalog does.
With limited laser capacity the sublimation was a godsend. We were able to take a 800 piece order for small plates I would not have had time to do on the laser. The asi people are also doing several hundred "tent" signs it would have been impossible to do with a laser or engraver in a short time.
.
EDITED: 9 May 2006 by LOGOJOHN
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#16]
10 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#14] 10 May 2006
David:
The substrate was Unisub sheet stock and the first paper was Textprint XP, the second paper was TruePix. I'm not saying one is superior to the other but that they produce different colors.
I tried numerous color tests on the TruePix before I realized that the paper not the ink was my problem.
Just to pass this along--I bought quite a lot of precut Unisub from a closeout site on EBay. My motive was basically to provide cheap material for experimenting with my new 1280 toy.
Well, I came up with the idea of making boutique type signs 4" x 4" out of this scrap material. I made a couple and sent them to a customer who had one of these cutsie type shops. She loved it and promptly ordered 20 (that paid for my material) it was when she ordered the second 20 that I ran into the problem.
MikeN
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#17]
10 May 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#16] 10 May 2006
Textprint XP is a hi-release paper, meaning much of the ink stays on top of the paper, allowing more dye to release to the substrate.
Great for fabric and (in my experience) ceramic tiles, but problematic for metal and FRP.
TruePix (sp) is a great "general purpose" transfer paper.