Full Version: DSSI Engraving Folder / EE Announcement
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#101]
6 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#91] 7 May 2006
You are telling us to ante up when we have no idea of what we're anteing up for cos you arent gonna announce vapourware - what do you think a $99 a year forum without any indication of what one is going to get is? Vapourware to the extreme.!!!! Why did you guys even open your mouths about it in the first place?
You guys are winging it as you go cos your pie in the sky idea is being shot down in flames.
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#102]
6 May 2006
To: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#93] 6 May 2006
Franklin , there are info leechers and info givers - do you honestly think that the givers are worried about not getting a share of the pie - when that info was given not one of them expected payment!!!
What the givers dont like is the fact that the info was submitted in the spirit of sharing and is now being used for commercial gain. Whether you qualify a remark with a smarmy tongue in cheek comment is irrelevant , you made it - now stand by it , tell us who in your opinion is unhappy about not getting a few paltry $ for their contributions.
IMHO you are a leecher - what exactly have you contributed here - sheesh - talk about living in cloud cuckoo land.
EDITED: 6 May 2006 by RODNEY_GOLD
From: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#103]
6 May 2006
To: gt350ed [#99] 7 May 2006
The comments about penalties was another tongue in cheek comment. I guess I need to remember that comment I find to be humorous are not always taken as such by others. If you knew me and the volunteer work that I do in political circles, you would have no doubt in your mind about my opinions on censorship. One thing I like about this forum is our ability to speak our minds.
As for the three in a row. I was reading up on this particular thread and as one struck a nerve, I responded to it. I guess no one wrote anything between the times that I posted, so they all showed up together like that. Kind of shocked me as well.
Now, not to hash over old posts, but if you would like I could go back and give cut and paste quotes from two individuals in particular who not only were speaking their minds, but doing it in a way that could be seen by quite a few in this forum as plain arrogant and rude. My posts were not blatant comments about people in here who have a problem with the changes, but to those in particular who were making free plugs for new web forums without asking permission to do so. A new group started is fine, but to do it solely out of spite is another. There were also a few comments made that gave the impression (at least by one person) that this forum would really suffer if they were not around to give their two cents worth. This entire forum is a place of learning and sharing for all of us. No one person in here is going to make or break this forum (except for David if he just gets tired of all the drama and shuts it down- of Course).
And in the area of launching my business. I have a degree in visual communications, I have worked in the signs industry for years and have been on my own for years. The engraving part of the business is new. I know business, I also know professionalism and the way A FEW of the posts were made wasn't (to borrow your analogy)a family sitting around the dinner table, but rather a family sitting around a dinner table with one member of the family over in the corner throwing a fit because he/she has to eat what is served them (i.e. a free site moving to a paid site by the guy who created the site).
By all means, lets discuss, but lets also do it professionally. Knowing that the site is going to go this direction and that if it is that much of an issue, we have the right to go to one of the other sites or start one ourselves. David has my full support on this move.
From: Myyk [#104]
6 May 2006
To: ALL
Well, I also will have to evaluate whether the forum is worth that much to me. By the the time us "foreigners" do the currency conversions, it's not an inconsequential amount.
I have enjoyed being part of this community with our shared interest, but with some of the most impressive contributors bowing out, what is left?
From: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#105]
6 May 2006
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#102] 6 May 2006
As you may read in the prior post and if you wish to go back in to previous threads, I don't know much about engraving, it is new to me, however I do know graphic design, I do know signage, I do know most of the programs used. I know website development, I know business formation and professionalism, and I know that there has been a few times that my knowledge on something has come into play and I was able to give some advice.
Its like this, I have been on this site for about half a year now and have personally gotten nothing of use from you. That is not to say that you do not have a lot of incite and knowledge in your field.
The issue I am addressing you just pointed out in your post to me. It only took you three paragraphs before you referred to me as a leecher and referenced that I must be in cuckoo land. A professional would have been a little more distingue with the comments and would not have resorted to blatant name calling.
By all means go to the free site, give out your free advice, and whine about how others are making money off of your ideas while giving no credit to anyone who may have given you a nugget of truth, help, or creativity along the way.
Sorry that you feel that you can blast anyone in this forum as abruptly as you do, but get offended if the same is reflected back at you, but sometimes professionalism has to come into play. Though I take offense at the personal "leech" comment, I will choose the hire, more professional road and won't continue on this path that you seem to want to take this thread.
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#106]
6 May 2006
To: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#105] 7 May 2006
You indicated on 21 april:
Since this issue was brought up, I guess I must specify that technically I am doing most of the actual engraving work, but I feel justified in putting my wife as a majority owner because she is the one that has invested time in helping get this started and she is also the primary bread winner in the family until our business gets off the ground.
How does the gel with the statement you just made that :
"I have worked in the signs industry for years and have been on my own for years. The engraving part of the business is new. I know business, I also know professionalism"
If that is the case , bearing in mind your statement in april of this year , it appears that whatever business you were in for years either folded or made no money or is not a contributor to family income? What exactly were you doing for years on your own?
Where does all that business acumen and professionalism come from and how was it applied to make your venture successful?
Looking at your posting record from the beginning of time indicates your first post was in jan this year , the majority of posts you make in terms of real contribution (and not political) were and are requests for info. What was your posting handle in the year prior to that so I can fully see your record of your 1.5 years here?
Should you wish to cast aspertions on others , you would do well to look to yourself first.
From: Zelmon [#107]
7 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) 7 May 2006
Blimey, what a hot topic, 100 plus threads overnight. I am reasonably new to the forum, but have had 20 years as an engraver. In spite of this experience I have learnt a lot, I try to reciprocate and offer advice where I think it is topical or relavant. I think the suggested fee is small petty cash for vitually everyone who joins in.
So the people who object are being a bit petty and small minded. It has a hint of 'I'll scan the forums and pick up tips but I am not giving any of my trade secrets away'!!
I attend ARA shows and am staggered by the candid and helpful approach of Americans, British business people (in my personal opinion I hasten to add) are a lot more secretive
A brave decision Dave, so I hope it works out.
My final comment....there's no such thing as a free lunch !!!
Simon Cork
Sheffield UK
From: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#108]
7 May 2006
To: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#103] 7 May 2006
Franlin,
I think your first order of business should be to keep your tongue out of your cheek. It obviously warps your judgement.
From: JHayes55 [#109]
7 May 2006
To: ALL
I respectfully request that everyone refrain from name calling and personal attacks.
I am not sure that anyone has really meant to do this but it is starting to sound that way in some posts.
No need to be disagreeable just because there is disagreement.
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#110]
7 May 2006
To: gt350ed [#96] 7 May 2006
Wish ya luck David...don't believe it will work...but good luck!
Doug
EDITED: 7 May 2006 by JDOUG5170
From: MR C (MOSHE) [#111]
7 May 2006
To: ALL
Hey, I also like free like everybody else.
But why complain when it comes the time to pay the piper?
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#112]
7 May 2006
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#106] 7 May 2006
I reread his post just to be sure. He said one half a year.
Also your post is getting awfully close to a personal attack. Please be more careful about that. Personal attacks are one of the few things NOT allowed.
All opinions are welcome, but not attacks.
On a totally different subject. We had a thread asking for things that people would like to see here. I thank all for their suggestions. It certainly helped us think and come up with some more.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#113]
7 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#91] 7 May 2006
Hi Harvey,
I understand not wanting to introduce vaporware. I think the forum appreciates that, but don't you think it would be a better business plan to have the new ideas up and running before asking people to pay for "future" improvements?
The biggest potential problem I see is ponying up, with the risk of little or no change to the forum.
Show us what we should be willing to pay for, and you will give people a decision to make. Tell us that "the future will be rosy" and we have nothing to base our decisions on other than faith that it will be more grand than we can imagine.
From: Button (LASERCHICK) [#114]
7 May 2006
To: ALL
I have been reading and so far have refrained from responding. I do not want to be part of any contention, if that is what some are feeling. I do have a couple of comments to make, though.
1. So far, I have been one of the "leeches". I do not have the knowledge that so many on the forum have. I hope to some day give back what I have learned here. I bought my engraver 2 1/2 years ago for one purpose only. Last year at the ARA show, I decided it was time to learn more and move on. It takes time and a lot of knowledge. I certainly appreciate all who have helped me.
2. I don't know if I will be joining the paid site, but I will certainly consider it. It seems like there are so many $10 a month here, $5 a month there and it really adds up. At this point, I will probably give it a try and see if it is worth it before I pass judgement. I had thought "why not charge $29 a year to begin with, and let us all see if it is worth our money". That would be very doable for me and I would join today. I think newcomers would join quickly at that cost, but at $99 I think it will drive most of them away. I also feel that most who are already part of it would be willing to pay that--maybe even a little more.
3. I want to personally thank David and the other Mods for all their time. I have always wondered how David L. finds time to answer as many posts as he does. Time is money and he has certainly given freely to everyone on this forum. Almost every post, David responds to. I don't know about the rest of you, but every time I am sidetracked to respond to e-mail, phone calls, etc., when they are not directly connected to my business (to bring in money for me), cost me money.
Thanks, David L., for all your time!
EDITED: 7 May 2006 by LASERCHICK
From: Semi-Accurate Engraver (LONEHAWK) [#115]
7 May 2006
To: ALL
I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with anyone; I'm just stating my info on the situation for whatever it's worth. I'm sure the more thoughts the Mods have from the users the better.
First thing is that one demographic has been left out of the equation. (Me being in this demographic.) That's simply those of us that do not like paying for things online. (no, i don't mean you should steal/pirate stuff! :S ) I'm just still not happy with security on the net. No matter how secure something is, someone cracks it, steals from it etc. eventually it seems. For this reason I don't buy/purchase or subscribe to things online. Only fair to say that I have made 2 exceptions that I can think of though; but the circumstances were extenuating.
Second, I joined this forum, oh, I don't know, about 2 months ago I think. I came across it by accident whilst searching for info on laser engravers before our company made our recent purchase, trying to educate myself beforehand. I have to say, what made me sign up was the "free exchange of ideas and info" philosophy. I was not around in the beginning of this forum's life so I never knew the agenda was open that it was eventually meant to be a pay for use site.
I have had a couple of questions answered and I have made my 2 cents worth input to a few. (whether I was of any help or not I don't know and am not professing.) I'm not bragging when I say this: the main reason I've stuck around is the "interest factor." Meaning, I don't come across a lot of problems I can't solve or figure out on my own with my co-workers, but I love the engraving industry/my job and just thought this was a really cool place to talk shop.
To sum up, I will not be subscribing when it goes to pay to be honest about it for the reasons above and simply, I can't afford that in my budget right now. (In Canada here.) Not that Canadians are poor , just no tax break here. :'-(
I wish David and Co. good luck. In the end only God knows whether this will work out or not. But you have to admit, you'd never know if anything would work if you didn't try it.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#116]
7 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#56] 7 May 2006
There is? I would be interested.......
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#117]
7 May 2006
To: precisionlaser [#60] 7 May 2006
Mark,
I could not past your whole thread here, it was too large, BUT it was right on the money.
You stated many of the feelings I have and stated them well.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#118]
7 May 2006
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#29] 7 May 2006
Could you give us the name of the photo site? I'd like to see what they're up to.
On the topic of copyrighted posts, for anyone who strongly objects to their archived posts being part and parcel of the pay site, I do have the ability to esponge all of their posts.
I will perform that task, to all who request to have their posts removed.
At the same time, I would ask that those people weigh their decision carefully.
Deleted posts will disrupt the continuity of an archived thread.
Putting myself in that scenario, I would allow my archived posts to stand, on whatever forum I had previously participated, without malice.
Of course, each of us is entitled to our own decisions.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#119]
7 May 2006
To: mikew [#35] 7 May 2006
I've seen the contribution drives on Sawmill Creek. From what I saw, they were sparsely met.
Why would it take such a valuable resource, to be driven to the edge of extinction, before taking measures to ensure its continuance?
If meeting operating costs is the single goal, that says to me, the administrators aren't planning to take the site beyond its current incarnation.
From: mikew [#120]
7 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#119] 7 May 2006
SMC was in a similar situation, monthly bandwidth was costing them greatly. The members stepped up and met the need.
The difference is SMC isn't looking to profit from members shared information, only to cover costs. That's what a forum is.....Shared information. You can try reinvent it with extras like cheap clipart/logos but in the end the people are there for the shared information/interaction.
As many have said, please throw us a bone.....What are the perks?
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