Full Version: DSSI Engraving Folder / EE Announcement
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#121]
7 May 2006
To: spudislander (WILLM) [#36] 8 May 2006
Will,
Thank you for supplying the operative word -- Foresight.
It's been suggested (privately) that I lay out my long term goals, in order to show people what's in store.
There are two reasons, I keep that information close to my vest:
1) Nobody, including myself, likes "vaporware."
Vaporware, for those not familiar with the term, is an announcement of a great product, just over the horizon, which, in reality, may never materialize.
My plan will be incremental. People in the "Show Me" state will appreciate my approach.
2) I'm thinking much further out of the box, than any current awards and engraving industry entity seems to be capable of.
I'm not disparaging those companies or organizations; just making an observation, based on nearly four decades within this industry.
Therefore, revealing my long-term vision, which has been thought through and is very clear in my mind, at this time, will only serve to inspire others to imitate.
Evidence at hand, is the emergence of a "look-a-like" Beehive forum, which although not affiliated in any way to EE.org has adopted a mutation of my forum's name along with the format of carrying many processes, under one roof.
Until I initiated the Engraving Etc. forum, on Delphi forums (circa 2000 and to this day) most online forums were/are single-dimensional.
I surely don't mind if other forums are inspired to follow the leader, but I think it's up to the leader to set the bar.
That way, those who have followed our history will recognize the true originators.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#122]
7 May 2006
To: EncompassTech [#44] 8 May 2006
Cherie,
No such potentially-bias-producing offers have been made, or accepted.
Companies run discounts and specials all the time. Running a special, especially for our group, (as is being done on DSSI) isn't fuel for bias.
Thank you, once again, for making my case.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#123]
7 May 2006
To: Zonas [#45] 7 May 2006
Zona,
Do you own a dictionary?
When's the last time you used it?
When you did have occasion to use it, did you find the information you were looking for?
Was your dictionary a waste of money?
Our registered members will be made aware of the change in format, with 30 days to make their decision.
EDITED: 7 May 2006 by DGL
From: precisionlaser [#124]
7 May 2006
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#117] 7 May 2006
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#125]
7 May 2006
To: EncompassTech [#47] 8 May 2006
You are saying a lurker is going pay you to come out and tell the "go getters" of the industry all of their secrets? Personally this would be the last place I would be willing share information. I would be expecting to get more information as a lurker now that I have to pay to lurk.
Cherie,
Your statement, sounds as if you possess incontrovertible evidence to the contrary.
To this day, I maintain a DelphiPlus membership. I rarely visit, but I'm happy to have their valuable product at my disposal, when needed.
I don't begrudge them charging for their service.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#126]
7 May 2006
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#48] 7 May 2006
As our Most Valuable Newcomer, I truly appreciate your input, here and across the entire forum.
If I hadn't already seen pay forums succeed, I'd be less confident about my decision.
I'm well aware of the drop of membership we'll experience. I have no expectation of how many paying members to expect, in the short term.
Jokingly, I've said, "If we end up with five paying members, we'll build from there." :-)
After all, I've started from scratch, on two occasions. The second time, was less work than the first; and if you consider the new format, the third start; I expect even less work, in building a strong membership.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#127]
7 May 2006
To: sprinter [#54] 7 May 2006
Many people choose not to enter the fray. It's not surprising you're not seeing the "where do I make my payments" emails I'm receiving privately.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#128]
7 May 2006
To: cardjim (JIMMY) [#64] Unread
Jimmy,
I'm one of the little guys. I don't think you can get smaller than a one-man operation, where wearing all the hats, is a daily occurence.
I don't call myself a "little guy" because I truly believe, that mindset is counter-productive, to becoming a bigger guy.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#129]
7 May 2006
To: sprinter [#66] 7 May 2006
I fully agree that another name should have been used, but I doubt you had much say in the choice of the name.
I suspect there's an element of sibling rivalry at play.
Is that the case? You can be honest; can't you?
You're anonymous.
From: UncleSteve [#130]
7 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#127] 7 May 2006
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#131]
7 May 2006
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#102] 7 May 2006
Rodney,
I find it interesting that you, who emphatically states, the (commercial) awards and engraving industry holds no allure and that EE.org holds virtually no value to you personally, would be at the head of the charge against the new format.
In case you hadn't seen my previous post, adressing people who feel their contributions are being hijacked, as grist for the new format, I can delete all of your posts, with a single click of a button.
I'll do so, at your command, and for those who share your sentiments.
EDITED: 7 May 2006 by DGL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#132]
7 May 2006
To: Zelmon [#107] 8 May 2006
Thank you Simon.
I appreciate your perspective from "across the pond" and as a seasoned industry veteran.
My only fear for this thread, is that it will replace the "ARA Las Vegas" thread as the longest-running. :P
EDITED: 7 May 2006 by DGL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#133]
7 May 2006
To: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#110] 8 May 2006
We all have our beliefs.
With or without your presence, we'll continue to proudly carry your link.
All the best,
From: Becky (KIAIJANE) [#134]
7 May 2006
To: ALL
Hello All,
As a 99% leech, 1% contributor, it is safe for me to say that I have received invaluable tips and advice from from this site.
Everyone has always treated me with kindness and answered all of my questions with professionalism and courtesy.
I have been "saved" many a time from this forum.
I was also fortunate enough to meet several forum members at the Beach Party in Las Vegas. It was a fantastic opportunity to pick the brains of some of the leading business people in the industry.
The question of whether or not I would personally pay for this site is about to be a moot issue as my fledgling business is in the process of disintigrating before my very eyes.
I'm not really sure what the point of sharing that opinion in an open forum like this is anyway. I wouldn't hope to influence anyone else's opinion or try to get the moderators to change their minds. People will have to make the decision on their own. Those who realize and need the value of the site will ante up. Those who don't, won't. Simple as that. I am hoping for the sake of all involved, there will be more of the former than the latter.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone (especially the fabulous moderators) for all of the help you have given me for the last 8 months. I will miss the camraderie and humor and friendship I have found here. Please know that my exit has nothing to do with the new structure and everything to do with my current business situation.
I may be back once my own "smoke" clears.
Now, anyone out there in the market for a whole garage full of trophy parts? LOL
Thanks again everyone
good luck in your business.
Becky
EDITED: 7 May 2006 by KIAIJANE
From: Shaddy [#135]
7 May 2006
To: Becky (KIAIJANE) [#134] 7 May 2006
Becky, I think you're missing a good opportunity to get some advice from some good sources. Could be that your chosen area of business isn't pulling the weight, so you need to expand to bring in some more dough. Maybe be more specific on what you're doing, what equipment you have, what area you're located...
Not that I myself can help, but we all like hearing the drastically different advice from the forum members. Post it in a new thread, as I don't read all the posts in this thread.
Shaddy
From: precisionlaser [#136]
7 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#131] 8 May 2006
David,
I had to think a little while to understand why I had such a negative reaction to your reply to Rodney. I have this general feeling (and I am sure you'll disagree with me) that you're shooting yourself in the foot with the defensive and unyielding nature of your replies. Rodney has contributed tons of useful and valuable input and if there's anyone on the forum who I'd think would be exempt from any sort of payment, it would be him. In fact, I think you'd do yourself a great favor and pay people like him who bring such a wide breadth of experience to the forum. Now there's a thought...pay for content. You expect the rest of us to pay for it...it might be a good idea for you to do that as well.
What saddens me is that I see other ways that this could have been handled with largely the same positive result for you. All of us have enjoyed being part of the forum, but now you are unilaterally changing the value proposition and, in my opinion, ignoring the input that your potential customer base is giving you. If I was you, I'd listen, back up and ask for input on how to achieve your goals. You might find better ideas there, retain more of your potential customer base, and avoid ending up as "Admiral of the Rowboat".
For my part, I don't plan on joining the "for pay" site. I do wish you good luck though!
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#137]
7 May 2006
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#116] 7 May 2006
What a poor choice of wording I used. To me it meant one thing, on re-reading it it can easily mean something else.
I meant and inclusive, not and statement. In real English that means the replacing the 'and' with an 'IF' reads more properly.
Your generous offer will be thought about. It was not a search for someone, but you are making me give it thought. The David's and I will have to see if that is realistic at this moment.
Thanks for the offer, it is greatly appreciated.
From: Upacreek [#138]
7 May 2006
To: ALL
Sheesh, Miss a topic for a few days and spend hours catching up on 133 posts! I'm sure more will come in as I eat dinner and type my response.
There have been a lot of well-thought statements and a lot of heated comments. For those of you posting snarky comments, BEHAVE.
Advertising banners? Sure. No problem. I ignore them all anyway.
Clip art, corporate logos as enticement? Not for me. I design most of my own graphics.
Do I learn from this site? Yes and no. I'm an avid reader. I don't apply most responses to my business needs, but merely store facts learned as "mental notes."
$99/year? Not without full knowledge of what I am paying for. I have the same concerns that many have expressed. We want to know what we will be paying for BEFORE we pay for it.
Deleting people's prior posts from the new pay-only forum? While I fully stand behind any person requesting their posts be deleted if that's what they choose to do, if you do that, you just greatly decreased the value of the forum as a resource.
My suggestions? Leave the forum intact and free or at most $30/year as that is what drives many people to visit this site and contribute information. Offer products such as "How to maintain your <insert equipment here>" articles and supplier databases, file downloads etc as items people must pay for to access.
If the new format proves to do well and people are paying for the optional services as well as use the forum, then offer a "full service" option where they pay $100/year and can download anything they want.
Michel
EDITED: 7 May 2006 by UPACREEK
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#139]
7 May 2006
To: precisionlaser [#136] 7 May 2006
I told Rodney in a post that he would get a free year for his article, once he approved/disapproved the editing of it to format. You saw the slap in the face he gave me.
David's offer to remove his posts were only if Rodney wanted that to happen. Rodney was objecting strongly to his free contributions going on a private site. We were just trying to be courteous and responding to a possible request. Either way on either point, it is entirely Rodney's call. We will do what he wants.
TO ALL:
David was right, I should not have let the cat out of the bag on the logos. I was just trying to show that we were working on improvements. The response has seen posts similar to 'Who needs 700 stinking logos, what else are you going to do for me.' Now I know why I usually give his comments a huge amount of thought.
From: precisionlaser [#140]
7 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#139] 7 May 2006
Harvey,
My point about Rodney was in support of my main point, which was about the approach being taken here and about alternative approaches which I believe would reduce collateral damage. I can't add anything more to my comment, so I won't. It appears that you guys have made up your minds that this is the way it's going to be, so all I can say is good luck.
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