Full Version: DSSI Engraving Folder / EE Announcement
From: sprinter [#67]
6 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#56] 6 May 2006
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#68]
6 May 2006
To: sprinter [#67] 6 May 2006
I am glad you took the time to see the code, a great learning experience. You have seen the results first so it probably makes more sense.
David is very serious about someone opening engravingetc.free. He has never been afraid of competition and has no qualms about that happening. If someone wants to do it it is fine with us. We may even learn something from it. Friendly competition is always good for both sides.
We wish all the best, that is sort of what this forum is all about.
From: sprinter [#69]
6 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#68] 6 May 2006
Hi Harvey,
Actually I have taken David up on his offer and have opened www.engravingetcfree.com this morning. I want to stress, it is not to compete, but to continue the flow of free information and help. Everyone is welcome and I hope both you and David stop by to post. The site is very rough and will take some time.
I'm looking for moderators if your interested :D
Message 3725.70 was deleted
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#71]
6 May 2006
To: sprinter [#69] 6 May 2006
I will be by after the weekend, out of town Sat-Mon as usual.
Thanks for the offer, but it is getting busy here and the finalization of what we are attempting is also eating up more time. Also I need to devote some time to my business.
I truly wish you the best of luck. See you there later.
From: spudislander (WILLM) [#72]
6 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#65] 6 May 2006
I don't think you'll find anybody opposed to you making money off of this venture. Most if not all will agree that you should be compensated monetarily for your efforts. This is a business for you.
I think either this announcement is premature or you have done a poor job selling your vision as to what benefits members will recieve.
Besides a library of clipart (most have or don't need) what else are you offering as a benefit for the subscription?
This is the question that will be the deciding factor for the majority of members.
I know you have been suggestioned to death. I am sure your decisions make sense to you but as you can see from this thread it doesn't to the majority of members.
I will expect to see participation at this point begin to decrease and I think it will be only a matter of time (shortly I expect) to see a migration to another forum. All the bravado in the world will not change this from happening.
Here goes my unwanted suggestions.
1. leave the forum free - it will continue to grow and become the major community of the industry. It can become a revenue creating cornerstone for your business in many other ways.
2. Develop other revenue creation models from the success of the forum, including a subscription service for other value added benefits. i.e. your clipart library, perhaps monthly articles, charge to have classified advertisements. I don't see any concern about charging for advertising as long as there are no restrictions about open discussion in the forum. Believe it or not there are many other trade magazines that do offer unbiased articles on products without fear of retribution from angry advertisers. Maximum PC comes to mind first.
Develop the success of the Forum into an actual organization. Negotiate group benefits for members. There are so many other ways to genereate income off of the success of this forum, that I'm sure a man of your creativity will have no problem becoming the Bill Gates of engraving :-)
I think you are confused by the participation of the core group as being worth the cost of membership. Many come here and participate because of the relationships that have been built through this media. Most will not pay for that continued benefit. It is appearing that your business model is holding those relationships hostage and as a result there will be negative backlash.
I wish I could communicate these messages through this media as well as I could live but that is for the future forums ;-)
So to reiterate the intention of this post.
WHY? should I join???
I hope you have more to tell me than this forum.
Will
From: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#73]
6 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#68] 6 May 2006
David, Harvey and any other powers that be.
Why the absolute aversion to advertising. The simple use of Yahoo or Google contextual ads on each page would earn more than enough to pay the costs of operating the forum.
I am sure that David and the mods have great plans, it might be a good idea to define them as part of the reason to pony up.
David with his usual blunt force approach is doing very little to sell the idea. Perhaps he should put down that 2x4 and offer something of value for the money. You see, the value of the forum is its members, not some packaged clipart crap that you can get anywhere (almost all corporate logos are available free and I can get a cazillion free clip art images for much less than a hundred bucks).
ITPS ( It's the people stupid). That is the value of this forum. So here is a great idea, why don't we just chase most of them away?
EDITED: 6 May 2006 by AWARDMASTERS
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#74]
6 May 2006
To: sprinter [#69] 6 May 2006
Sprinter,
The free site will be a great alternative for the EE family to stay together in some form. I would hate to see all of the relationships that have been developed here to completely unravel simply because of a change in the direction of Engraving Etc.
When the time comes, we are anticipating a substantial fallout. When the dust settles, we hope to build interest over time with the new business model and a foundation of professionals who recognize this as an opportunity to invest in better business tools of which the forum exchange will only be a part of.
I hope you will not be opposed to David introducing the new features of the website as it grows. It will take time to see value in what it is we are doing, but until then, I am glad everyome will have a place to call home.
From: sprinter [#75]
6 May 2006
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#74] 6 May 2006
Let's all just get along together B-)
Actually it would be a great idea for David or any of you mods to post on the new site. It's not about competing, it's about giving the members a choice. Some will stay, some will go, I just wanted a place for the ones going to continue what was started here.
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#76]
6 May 2006
To: ALL
I've always considered Google contextual advertisements to add a bit of cheesiness and cheapness to a website. When I see these adds on a website, it reminds me of how cheesy I think it is when a golf course owner allows advertising on their scorecards. This option really doesn't fit our plans.
The clipart feature, which some people are discounting, will become a great feature of the site. There will be nowhere else on the internet with a searchable database of graphics for mechanical engraving machines, in addition to all of the vector art.
I do agree that we do need to stay away from corporate logos, especially with sites like www.brandsoftheworld.com available. Why tie up the server space for these?
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#77]
6 May 2006
To: sprinter [#75] 6 May 2006
Sprinter,
I only have so much time to go around, but will register and pop in when I have time. I have been struggling over the past couple weeks to stay on top of all the posts here. I guess that's a good thing, but I always find a moment to get my daily fix.
:-)
EDITED: 6 May 2006 by DATAKES
From: spudislander (WILLM) [#78]
6 May 2006
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#74] 6 May 2006
Talk about putting the cart ahead of the horse >.<
What's with the secrecy??
let's see these proposed advancements first
What better business tools??
Are we supposed to ante up on faith?? I don' t think so.
Maybe those other business models should be pursued independently from the forum.
C'mon 1266 registered members - SELL that.
I am not unique in my feelings or business sense. Have I learned enough over the past years to justify a membership - definitely. Will I continue to learn enough to justify a paid membership to an organization that will be crippled by an exodus of valuable resources (people), that I will not be able to obtain freely elswhere - Highly doubtful.
You guys, especially stuntman are doing a very poor job in selling or justifying me or anybody else in spending money here.
If this isn't addressed soon, I suspect the future expectations here to be greatly over estimated.
Will
From: UncleSteve [#79]
6 May 2006
To: sprinter [#75] 6 May 2006
David, David and Harvey are much more politically correct than I am... They won't tell you that it is just plain wrong to try to take away the members here. No matter how you try to sugar coat it, that is just what you are trying to do. Get an instant membership.
Do you also go into other religious institutions to solicit new congregants for YOUR place of worship?
You have made your point and advertisement in numerous messages. How about giving it a rest for now?
"You can build your business by getting more orders from your present customers or work on taking your competitors customers. Just don't do it in your competitors store!"
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#80]
6 May 2006
To: spudislander (WILLM) [#78] 6 May 2006
I will quote an earlier comment I made.
We plan to make all of our introductions with the unveiling of the website. Like with any business model, we will adapt to the market response and grow from there.
They didn't build Rome in a day, but once it was finished it was a pretty nice place to be. We hope this is what happens with the EE website, forum and educational events. It will be a great place for award and engraving industry professionals to visit and also use as a resource.
EDITED: 6 May 2006 by DATAKES
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#81]
6 May 2006
To: spudislander (WILLM) [#78] 6 May 2006
From: UncleSteve [#82]
6 May 2006
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#80] 6 May 2006
From: UncleSteve [#83]
6 May 2006
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#81] 6 May 2006
David has said this forum would be going subscription from its first day.
I think "revealed" might be a bit strong since it was never a hidden agenda...
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#84]
6 May 2006
To: sprinter [#66] 6 May 2006
Thank you. I've listened to the various comments and agree that a free forum is in order. I'll post a message in the Industry News folder.
It's my daughter's Sweet 16 Birthday, so I won't be back to the forum until later this evening.
From: Barbara (RGILE) [#85]
6 May 2006
To: UncleSteve [#79] 6 May 2006
Wow! I am exhausted just reading all of these posts. Some of you may know me, and some might not, but I have been on this forum as a new small business for a year now, if not longer. I have not paid a cent for any of the advice that I have received, and have been helped many times out of difficult places that I have been in.
Most of us can possibly agree that to run something like this takes time and money, and I can bet that most of us would not be volunteering to do it.
So many organizations have workers, and critics (doing nothing).
If some of you do not want to join, simply don't do it. David is only asking that you do. He is trying to introduce something to all of us that he believes in, and asking for money in return. If you have a problem with it, then by all means go somewhere else.
None of us like to part with hard earned money, but if it is in the best interest of our business then it is money well spent. I do agree that most of us have given and taken advice for nothing, and it was very much appreciated, but that said, where do you get anything for nothing today.
All he is asking is that you give it a try. Even for a month, to see if it is something that you would want to go further with. Most Newbies are hungry for information and are thinking of taking their businesses to a higher level. If they see this as a helpful tool to make that happen, then I personally think they would do it. If it wasn't what they expected, then they can cancel it.
Give these Moderators some credit. They aren't going to put everything out there to everyone right now, especially with someone already putting up another forum. (I am also a member of sawmill creek), and will probably be joining this new one also. I want to get the most out of all of the forums out there. (To help my business out) Not to hurt anyone.
If I choose to pay for one, then I will. If I do not like it, I can quit. That is what has been proposed and that is what is going to take place. Some will like it, some will not. That's life.
I am going to join. I will say, that if it gets clicky or uninformative, then I will not continue, but so far, I love it and plan to stay with it.
Barbara :D
From: UncleSteve [#86]
6 May 2006
To: Barbara (RGILE) [#85] 10 May 2006
Where were you 84 messages ago? ;-)
You are right on target!
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