Full Version: PMS Conversion
From: Linda (LINDAG) [#1]
9 May 2006
To: ALL
Is there a conversion for PMS colors to RGB?
I am not real experienced with sublimation and am not sure what to do when someone requests a specific PMS color. If they give me the artwork in a jpg or pdf file, how can I change the color? If it looks blue on my screen but they want it in PMS violet, how can I do that?
From: GBengraver [#2]
9 May 2006
To: Linda (LINDAG) [#1] 9 May 2006
I don't know anyone doing sublimation that does PMS matching.
I use Sawgrass inks with thier Powerdriver Pro color palletts and there are only 164 colors on the pallett.
Even the big promotional products suppliers don't offer PMS matching with sublimated products.
Greg
EDITED: 9 May 2006 by GBENGRAVER
From: logojohn [#3]
9 May 2006
To: Linda (LINDAG) [#1] 9 May 2006
http://www.seoconsultants.com/css/colors/conversion/
We have a full color guide with thousands of shades we got through ASI.
I see the pantone site has something similar for $129
http://pantone.com/
For jpg or other bitmap files, in corel photo paint there is a menu under [adjust][replace colors] where if you select other you can also enter the rgb or cymk numbers.
But the few times I have tried it I couldn't to accurately select the color to be changed. You could try creating a mask if it is a simple area.
You can't match it exactly. But sometimes a customer will have the pms color number which is a good guide if you have a chart. Sometimes what they have a printout or email of is not what they really want.
.
EDITED: 9 May 2006 by LOGOJOHN
From: Linda (LINDAG) [#4]
9 May 2006
To: ALL
Thank you John & Greg!
If the artwork looks blue on the screen, and they want violet, was given the wrong color to begin with?
From: UncleSteve [#5]
9 May 2006
To: Linda (LINDAG) [#4] 9 May 2006
Have you printed out anything and then pressed and compared to what you see on the screen?
From: Linda (LINDAG) [#6]
9 May 2006
To: UncleSteve [#5] 9 May 2006
Josh,
I must admit I do not know how to calibrate my monitor.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#7]
9 May 2006
To: Linda (LINDAG) [#4] 10 May 2006
Linda,
Even though most sublimators don't offer/guarantee PMS color matches, it's worth buying a Pantone Matching System (PMS) book.
That way, even though your monitor may not be calibrated, you'll be able to see the actual color they're specifying, which gives you a running chance at coming as close as possible.
Assuming the color they're requesting is purple, as opposed to blue, if you add magenta to the image (percentages depend on what shade you're trying to achieve) the color will turn purple.
Conversely, if you have a purple image (or spot color) that needs to be blue, you decrease the amount of magenta in the image.
If you use Photoshop, monitors can be (decently) calibrated with the program's built-in "Adobe Gamma."
EDITED: 9 May 2006 by DGL
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#8]
9 May 2006
To: Linda (LINDAG) [#6] 10 May 2006
Monitor calibration is a necessity in sublimation. There is an attachment called the Spyder, (I think that is the correct spelling), that goes on the screen and has a program that will do the calibration.
I do sublimate to PMS colors. The original Power Driver came with an RGB booklet that gave the values to use for the PMS colors and was amazingly accurate.
Do mot use the CMYK values that Corel gives for the PMS colors. They will only work if you have RIP software and the RIP module in the printer to get the right colors, otherwise they are usually far off.
You will need to get the RGB values suggested by the customer, if they even have them, unlikely. I have only found a few that do.
Very dark and very light purples seem to be the absolute worst to match with sublimation. Aren't I the bearer of good news?
I have the PMS swatch book, it runs between $75 and $100. If you need to match a PMS color it is the only way to be sure. Be sure to compare colors under fluorescent lights, they look way different under incandescent lights and a little different in sunlight. (More good news.)
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#9]
9 May 2006
To: GBengraver [#2] Unread
Hi Greg,
We PMS match with dye sub as well as other digital products on a regular basis. We use a RIP that allows us to adjust the color independantly in spot color areas. Granted the gammut of the inks doen't always allow the color to be spot on, but you would be surprised how closely we are on 99% of our work.
From: Linda (LINDAG) [#10]
10 May 2006
To: ALL
thank you everyone... so now my questions are:
If I don't use Photoshop, can I calibrate my monitor with CorelDraw? Or where can I find Spyder?
And what is RIP software and where I find that?
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#11]
10 May 2006
To: Linda (LINDAG) [#10] 10 May 2006
The Spyder is from ColorVision:
http://www.colorvision.com/profis/profis_search.jsp?op=search&department_id=401
While the "ColorPlus" is slightly cheaper, the "Spyder2" is better quality. And the Suite version will calibrate not only monitors but also many printers.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#12]
10 May 2006
To: Linda (LINDAG) [#10] 10 May 2006
RIP software is normaly used for large format inkjet printers. You don't need to use it to do what we are talking about.
Essentially you will need to be able to select a color and change it's value in a CMYK value.
You could easily create a square fill it with values that they suggest to reach a PMS value and tweak from there as David suggested.
How you go through this process depends on what software you use.
It can be time consuming, but it is possible. Your first goal as stated already is to get yourself a PMS color chart. Without this you can't do any color matching at all.
Beyond that, you will need to know how to set CMYK values for spot colors in whatever software that you use. A calibrated monitor would be great, but isn't essential since you are going to be tweaking the color 9 times out of ten anyway.
So
1. Get yourself a PMS Chart
2. Learn where you can set CMYK values for a color field in your prefered software.
Set a value that it shows on a PMS chart for the color that you are trying to match. Print it, press it, and check it against the chart....Adjust accordingly using the color theory info suggested below.
I would strongly suggest that you look into the following info on CMYK color theory. This will help you make adjustments more accurately than just by guessing.
You can find that information here...
http://www.byronc.com/art_color.shtml
Take a look at the CMYK color model portion for what subtractive CMYK colors combine to make new colors (Illustration 8. in the link).
This should help get you headed in the right direction.
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#13]
11 May 2006
To: ALL
I'm a newbie here with my share of color matching problems and I agree with those who recommend acquiring a pms chart but in the meantime here is a link to an online chart which may prove helpful.
http://www.printingassoc.com/pmscolor.html
Mike
EDITED: 11 May 2006 by MIKEN
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#14]
11 May 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#13] 11 May 2006
Printing can use any color inks for the basics of color. A monitor is quite limited. For example it would be impossible to show fluorescent colors that change with the amount of UV available.
EDIT: The blurb just over the colors says a lot, even though the wording is not strong enough.
EDITED: 11 May 2006 by HARVEY-ONLY
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#15]
11 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#14] 11 May 2006
I agree Harvey,
I have checked that site against the actual charts and it is off substantially in some areas. The only thing that that site is really good for is if perfection isn't important. You may be looking at a similar color on each end....or you may not depending on monitor calibration.
The whole idea of the PMS system is to have the same color on each end of the communication.
Anything viewed through a monitor on both ends would introduce quite a bit of schew against the real PMS color that you would see on a chart.
It would be one way to communicate when there are no other means, but far from foolproof, and quite a gamble if you ask me.....