Full Version: Canon EOS 5D/DSLR Discussion
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1]
11 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) 11 May 2006
Robyn (my wife) just picked up a new toy.
A Canon EOS 5D.
I'm trying to coax her into becoming more involved with the forum, but she's busier than a one-armed paper hanger.
I know you've kept up with digital cameras.
What's your opinion of this one?
EDITED: 15 May 2006 by DGL
From: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#2]
11 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1] 11 May 2006
Outstanding. If I didn't have 30 years worth of Nikon lenses and gear I'd go Canon DSLR today primarily for the full frame sensor.
The 5D gets raves on every photo chat list I visit.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3]
11 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#2] 11 May 2006
Robyn also bought some lenses. I got the rundown, which may make sense to you:
100mm 2.8 macro
24-70mm 2.8L series zoom
Here's one that's beyond me:
2 gig extreme 20mb per sec flash card.
She also got UV filters for the lenses.
She's been limping along, all these years, with a Coolpix 990 and a Fuji.
Getting plenty of rave reviews, but often found herself in the position of not being able to produce very good oversize images and everything she's produced up til now wasn't up to the minimum megapixel requirements of the stock photo houses.
Who knows? After decades of being involved with photography, one of these days, she might become an overnight success. :-)
If it weren't for a friend who knew somebody in a camera store and the fact that a few people ganged up, to demand a bulk discount, she may not have been able to buy the equipment.
Robyn isn't known to splurge, and felt guilty about spending the money.
I told her, "Go ahead! Get the tools of your trade."
One of these days, I'll have to try that. :-)
From: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#4]
11 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3] 11 May 2006
Flash cards, Smlash cards, doesn't matter really. That's just data storage. If it works in her 5D, fine. Newer cards write faster is all. If she shoots bursts like at a sporting event or birds in flight, that's critical. If she shoots landscape or other types of shots that require some thought and setup between shots, not so important. I use but a few 512MB cards and a 40 gig Flashtrax storage device. Seems to get me there. When I fill a 512MB card, I download it to the Flashtrax while I shoot another.
As to her lens assortment, f2.8 or lower (faster) glass will produce the better image. Primes are primo, no pun intended. Good fast zooms are a second choice but she should avoid lenses in the f4-f5.6 range if she can afford better. Good DSLRs demand good, fast glass. That being said, I have several slower lenses that I like quite a lot. A Sigma 50-500 zoom f5.6 being one of them. I just can't use it in a dimly lit scene.
And you are both right. Many stock image agencies like Alamy and Corbis require images at around 60MB min. Hard to do that with a 6MP camera. What's harder is to supply them 'unsharpened' images which is what they ask for. Means Robyn will have to keep separate files for printing and submission to a stock agency.
EDITED: 11 May 2006 by BIGPIXEL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#5]
11 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#4] 12 May 2006
Good info Mike.
I'll try to bring Robyn into this thread when she finds time.
I'll be an interested bystander, as I'm sure will be others.
Thanks,
EDITED: 11 May 2006 by DGL
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#6]
12 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#5] 12 May 2006
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#7]
12 May 2006
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#6] 12 May 2006
Yes, my wife has CS2.
She's pretty new to that program and brand new to the D5, to the point where she hasn't even taken a picture with it yet; so there will be a learning curve.
She's to busy processing a gazillion photos she took, while on a recent trip to Texas, to visit relatives. She was in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, visiting a cousin, who lives in Irving.
Came back with some nice stuff. Some architectural; some wildlife; some landscape.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#8]
14 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#2] 14 May 2006
So Mike,
For us non professional photographers....what do you think of the Olympus E-volt 500 ?
From: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#9]
14 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#4] 14 May 2006
Mike & David ... hope you dont mind me jumpin' in here too. I have a Nikon N6006 with a couple of Nikkor lens: 35-70mm @ 1.3.3-4.6 and a 70-210mm @ 1.4-5.6. I was thinking of buying a D70 or otherwise, to utilize these two lenses. Would they work well with the Nikon digitals? Any recommendations of the current crop of Nikon digitals for some of us amateur photographers?
Thanks guys!
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#10]
14 May 2006
To: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#9] 15 May 2006
I'm out of my element here, but I'd love to see this folder become very active.
Mike O'Hara is shaping up to be the EE photo guru. :-)
On topic: My wife took her first shots with the 5D today.
Love at first shot. :-)
From: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#11]
14 May 2006
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#8] 14 May 2006
For us non professional photographers....what do you think of the Olympus E-volt 500 ?
Chuck, sorry to say but I don't know a thing about it. There are so many prosumer cams out there with maybe 5 new ones added a week. I haven't kept up with prosumer digital since DSLR came of age.
From: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#12]
14 May 2006
To: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#9] 15 May 2006
John, most all Nikkor lenses (AF and manual Ai type) will work on Nikon DSLRs. There are a few exceptions as with some older perspective correction lenses and a few manual focus lenses. (a metal tab gets in the way on some and a few have too deep a rear element that actually touches the CCD/CMOS sensor) Best thing to do would be to check the NikonUSA web site. There should be a list of acceptable & non-acceptable lenses listed in the specs for each Nikon DSLR (D2x, D200, D70s, D50).
Keep in mind that NO NIKON DSLR has a full frame sensor (sensor the same size as a 35mm film frame). They all have a 1.5 lens reduction value, the sensor is smaller than film. What that means is that a typical older Nikkor lens designed to expose the larger 35mm film frame will "overshoot" the smaller Nikon sensor size. Good for telephoto (some claim) as your images will seem closer. Actually they're not, they're being cropped giving that illusion. Conversely, a wide angle lens on a Nikon DSLR will be narrower as some width is being cropped in camera. Just so you know. Also one of the reasons Robyn's Canon 5d is such a sweet camera. It's full frame. A 20mm lens on her camera will produce a full width image, not one reduced to 30mm.
http://www.nikonusa.com/
Obviously older manual focus lenses won't auto focus or work with TTL strobe sync like an AF/ED lens but you can use them just fine as manually focusing lenses. Some can be modified to add a chip that will allow AF I've been told.
The D70s is a good camera but nearing its product life span I think. Value wise you'd be smart to look at the newer D200. Quite a nice camera! Almost all the bells and whistles of Nikon's flagship digital, the D2x. Also means its a little unerving for a beginner to some degree. (lots of custom settings to navigate)
On the entry level side, don't overlook the Nikon D50. Quite a lot of camera there too with fewer features but if you are looking for an entry level Nikon DSLR, the D50 is a pretty nice way to go. I'vge seen stunning pics taken with the D50.
You can get a D50 with a pretty good mid range zoom lens for around $550. the D70s for around $900, the D200 around $1700, the D2x around $4400.
A lot of your decidion should be on how large you need/want to print. Therein lies the fabled and to some extent over-blown "Pixel Wars"! The D50 & D70s are 6MP cams, the D200 a 10MP and the D2x a whopping 12.2MP. More pixels = larger print size available at 300ppi. But please note that there is a whole lot more to picture quality than captured image size alone. But its as good a place to start as any in deciding which camera to buy I suppose....
Here's a great side by side comparison of all four Nikon DSLRs from DPReview:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=nikon_d50%2Cnikon_d70s%2Cnikon_d200%2Cnikon_d2x&show=all
EDITED: 16 May 2006 by BIGPIXEL
From: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#13]
14 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#10] 14 May 2006
Mike O'Hara is shaping up to be the EE photo guru. :-)
On topic: My wife took her first shots with the 5D today.
Love at first shot. :-)
Thanks for the complimenmt Dave but I'm not so sure I deserve the 'photo guru' tag. I know a few things as I'm sure many others here do. I hope that all experienced shooters take the time to add to the discussion here. It should be fun!
Please post a few of Robyn's pics or a link to them when you can. I'd love to see them.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#14]
14 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#12] 14 May 2006
Mike,
This is why I was asking about the olympus....it comes with TWO lenses and has an 8mp capacity....as opposed to 6 on the "prosumer" Cannon Rebel and the Nikon D50 or D70.......but I"m not sure about the "image chip" from what I have been able to discern...the olympus chip is a bit bigger than the others.....but hell what do I know.......
Anyway, call me sometime this week. You should have my number now.
From: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#15]
14 May 2006
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#14] 15 May 2006
You're right I think. Some cameras have a slightly bigger sensor with a 1.4 lens reduction value. But the game really has changed in the past few years. Most DSLR mfgs are now making lenses specifically designed for smaller sensors and not film. They're called Dx lenses by Nikon. In a decade, all the old 'film to DSLR' transitoners like me won't be of much concern to camera makers. Their new client base won't have an arsenol of old 35mm film lenses to transition. That's also why Nikon will probably never make a full frame camera. They're putting all their R&D into new lens technology that fits a smaller sensor. This is also why Canon may fall behind some day....(wink) Newer shooters will be buying the latest lenses designed for digital and not looking for lenses designed for film size. There will be nothing sacred about 35mm film size in the future and so no need for "full frame" cameras really.
But right now we are at a technological end with CMOS and CCD design. There does seem to be a limit as to how small and close together you can place image receptors (pixels if you will) on a piece of silicone without affecting image quality. A totally new design is needed, some breakthrough. But until then most camera mfgs are concentrating on refining the other and actually more important things about digital capture. Bit depth per pixel for example is much more important to image quality than the 'megapixel count' of your sensor. I think that for the next few years sensor size will stabalize and that refinement will be in finding better ways to utilize what's already in place......stay tooned!
And I apologize for not knowing the Olumpus evolt was an 8MP DSLR. Sure doesn't sound like a prosumer cam to me. Only 2 lenses though....that's a weak point.
EDITED: 14 May 2006 by BIGPIXEL
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#16]
15 May 2006
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#14] 15 May 2006
You're thinking about the old Rebel. The Rebel XT, which replaced it last year is 8MP, and takes incredible pics. I have one. I highly recommend it as an entry level camera over the Nikon D50 & D70 (unless you already have a few Nikkor lenses). There are several other brands in this class, some of which are very good, but Nikon and Canon are the leaders and if you're going to buy lenses and eventually move up to other cameras in the future I personally feel Nikon and Canon are the best way to go.
The lenses are a big part of the investment. I spent twice as much (total) for 3 lenses as I did on the body itself for mine.
From: John (JOHNRMONTG) [#17]
15 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#12] 15 May 2006
Mike .. thanks for the 'in depth' reply! I have allways enjoyed your posts on DSSI and your replies (more frequently here nowdays, I believe). The technology changes so fast in so many arenas these days its really hard to keep up. I appreciate all of your thoughts and appreciate the links you provided to check into them even further. I had done some quick reading a little bit ago concerning my lenses, which are auto focus, fyi, and wasn't too sure as regard to their compatablity with the current batch of Nikon cameras. I am wanting to get more into murals as well so I am wrestling with the 'pixel wars' as well to maximize whatever I get.
Robin's choice of camera does look excellent and I am considering it as well but would still like to get the most 'bang for the buck' by utilizing my other lense.
Thanks again for your imput.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#18]
15 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#15] 15 May 2006
Mike,
It COMES with two lenses, where most come with only one if any. I believe there are about 20 lenses available for the Olympus....
Thanks for the information. It is obvious you know your way around a camera......I learned a lot from your post.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#19]
15 May 2006
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#16] 15 May 2006
Dave,
Did you consider the Olympus at all? If you did, what did you chose the Canon over the Olympus?
From: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#20]
15 May 2006
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#18] 15 May 2006
It COMES with two lenses, where most come with only one if any. I believe there are about 20 lenses available for the Olympus....
Thanks for the information. It is obvious you know your way around a camera......I learned a lot from your post.
Thanks Chuck, like I said earlier; I know a few things but not everything obviously. ;-)
The thing you must consider when going DSLR is that lens quality matters as much if not more than the digital body you buy. Photography's all about optics, right? There are trade offs in quality and different price points with lenses. That's why I'd research these two Olympus lenses to see what quality they are before you buy. I'd guess mid range, not very fast glass which is also what Nikon and Canon offer with their entry level cameras. Not saying that's a bad thing, it depends on your needs and wants. But there is nothing crazier than for someone to buy a $1000+ DSLR, put a crappy lens on it and then wonder why their pics are crummy. (general statement Chuck, not directed at you)
But that said, ultimately you will have much more invested in glass than a digital body, even if you buy a D2x ($4500) or a Canon 1DsMkII ($8000). I personally have approximately $10,000 in lenses and Nikon accessories. Much more than I will ever spend on a DSLR body.
Another thing to consider today is that most DSLRs seem to have a usefull lifespan of 3-5 years before they start to fail or better replacements are released that you'd want to buy. Its not like the old film days when your 30 year old F2 was still shootin as good as the day it was made. So you need to consider a camera system carefully as you'll likely go through several digital bodies over time that your expensive lens collection would need to work with.
This is why Nikon and Canon are the giants today. Both have hundreds of lenses and accessories for ther system to choose from. Olympus is a well known and respected camera mfg but I'm not sure where they stand in today's market. They came a bit late to the DSLR party I think. Many reliable camera makers who tried to take on Nikon/Canon are falling by the wayside. Contax, Kodak, Sigma to name three who have dropped out in the last 2 years.
Personally if I were starting out today, I'd only consider Nikon or Canon if my aim was long term involvement with photography.
Incidentally, just to show how far we've come ion a few years, Kodak released the first 35mm DSLR around 1995, the DCS760m. It was based on a Nikon body. Looked like a brick and weighed a ton. Cost $22,000 too >.< and produced a smaller image than most of today's cell phone cams!
EDITED: 18 May 2006 by BIGPIXEL
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