Full Version: Thoughts and Decisions
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1]
23 May 2006
To: ALL
I'll do my part, in ensuring this discussion remains civil and I encourage those of you who participate in this thread to do the same.
I'm very adamant about some decisions, such as usernames being actual names, and open to suggestion on others.
There will be mentions of costs, but none have been established, therefore, nothing is set in stone.
I'll begin with a decision I've made in the realm of advertising:
We're developing a page where all banner ads will be displayed. This means you'll be able to view the ads, without having to wait for them to appear in the Forum Page Rotation (FPR).
There will be a link, at the top of the forum page, to access the ad page.
The Engravers Journal and A&E/NBM, through confidential arrangements, are paid advertisers. I can't, in good conscience, diminish their exposure, by giving them equal footing in the FPR, with free ads.
For those wishing to be included in the FPR of banner ads, along with EJ and A&E, there will be a cost, and at this point, I'm considering a maximum of 10 FPR spots.
EDITED: 27 May 2006 by DGL
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#2]
23 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1] 23 May 2006
While this may be contrary to normal thought, all the ads are really paid to some extent.
The only difference is that the two journals are paid by free advertising for the forum by ads, the supplier ads are paid directly to our members by virtue of their discounts. I like the thought of ads being paid to the readers of the ads. I value those as much as the free advertising we get in return to those two. (Maybe more.)
From: Mick [#3]
23 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1] 23 May 2006
From: Shaddy [#4]
23 May 2006
To: Mick [#3] 23 May 2006
I guess technically the more people know about this place, the more people will come and participate, therefore the wider base of ideas and responses to questions we ask. And in another way, if we were pay, the more people the more money, and in a perfect world, the more money being generated the more features and benefits available to us.
We could, for instance, pay someone to receive bulk orders and then separate and send to us, to take advantage of large order pricing. Large enough so the addition shipping would be swollowed up by the savings.
Those are just some things that crossed my mind.
Shaddy
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#5]
23 May 2006
To: Mick [#3] 23 May 2006
If you've checked the advertising rates of EJ and A&E, collectively, our magazine ads are worth thousands of dollars per year.
We're clearly on the "good end of the stick" considering our magazine ads are widely-circulated, whereas, the EJ and A&E ads, here, aren't widely-circulated at all.
In terms of actual outlay, the Preferred Suppliers "take a hit" only when a forum member takes them up on their exclusive offer.
The magazines take a sizeable hit, every month, of every year.
Shaddy offered a good explanation of the other benefits we'll see, as the result of our symbiotic realtionship with the magazines.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#6]
23 May 2006
To: Shaddy [#4] 23 May 2006
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#7]
24 May 2006
To: ALL
1) Usernames will be actual names.
2) All banner ads will be shown on a separate page, with paid advertiser's ads, appearing at the top of the forum page.
Here's my next thought:
Since some people prefer the forum in its current state, without a desire for the "Premium Features" (PF) i.e. Articles, PicTutorials, TeleSeminars, Downloadable Artwork/Templates, Videotaped How-To Segments, Video Field Trips, (to mention features that immediately come to mind) I'm suggesting a low-cost, basic membership.
By low-cost, I mean, somewhere in the $3 per month range, if paid annually.
Similar to "basic cable" those members would be able to order the PF, on an ala carte basis.
There could be another membership level (or two) where PF (to be determined) would be included.
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#8]
25 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#7] 25 May 2006
David,
I'm kind of torn on this one. There is one side of me that thinks the annual charge collected should be equal to the projected hard costs of the forum itself. The other side wants the website to develop into something greater, and that takes resources. It won't happen without some additional revenues generated from the forum subscription.
I personally think the proposal you are putting out there is good for many reasons.
1). It will cover the hard costs of the forum, as well as your past out-of-pocket expenses.
2). It will provide some, but likely not all resources needed to advance the website further. The balance can be garnered from the Level 2 subscribers.
3). It allows the forum to become more private, which in return will open up the discussions on some subjects. (This continues to be my favorite immediate benefit.)
4). It will make the Level 2 subscription and its features optional for those who see the value.
5). It allows the members of this forum to remain as one, rather than being split into two Engraving Etc. venues.
6). It provides a more affordable option to those who would have been more challenged with the $99 subscription. It is a newbie-friendly subscription rate.
EDITED: 25 May 2006 by DATAKES
From: Button (LASERCHICK) [#9]
25 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#7] 25 May 2006
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#10]
25 May 2006
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#8] 25 May 2006
At this point, we really don't know what some of the hard costs will be. I'm just trying to establish a starting point.
When we get into video production/post-production and Engraving Etc. Live! events (which will be videotaped and offered to those who couldn't attend) there will be substantial expenses.
We'll also be paying authors for articles/tutorials and instructors for online education. Those costs, at this point, are also unknown.
I'm attempting to make the site appealing to everyone, with full knowledge, not everyone will be pleased.
Like you, I feel a more private forum will open up the discussions, in some areas and promote a more professional atmosphere.
I didn't like the idea of separate forums and felt that would create an "us against them" (elitism) format, that could only spell trouble.
Obviously, in the early stages, our Premium Features will be a building process. Over time, the accumulation of those features, will be enough to boggle minds. :-)
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#11]
25 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#10] 25 May 2006
My only worry is that there will not be enough premium members to allow the fast growth of the premium features.
But otherwise it seems like a better plan. The private list of features we have, a large bit of them from forum member suggestions seems overwhelming in some respects from a time and money perspective. If the income is reduced, they will just take a bit longer to implement.
I think that this idea may be the best of both worlds, just a little slower to get everything done.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12]
25 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#11] 25 May 2006
I'm hoping the "entry level" membership will be attractive enough an offer, to inspire many people to join.
That would give us a better ($) footing, initially.
Some of the Premium Features can be generated more quickly than others; the TeleSeminars, PicTutorials, brief How-To Videos and Flash Tutorials, for example, can be generated fairly quickly.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#13]
25 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12] 25 May 2006
Unless you have some equipment hidden somewhere that I do not know about, that one might not be that fast. I do not have any of that equipment available.
From: PenMan [#14]
25 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#13] 25 May 2006
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#15]
25 May 2006
To: PenMan [#14] 26 May 2006
Try the old 16mm film cameras that took 400' of film. You were lucky.
(Prior life, engineer in CBS News Camera Engineering department.)
From: sprinter [#16]
25 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#15] 25 May 2006
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#17]
25 May 2006
To: sprinter [#16] 25 May 2006
Walk in our shoes for a mile and you will understand.
The land was flat by me, but burrowing through the ten foot snow drifts was a bummer.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#18]
25 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#11] 25 May 2006
Harvey,
Fast is not always equal to good. As recent history shows it would, in MY OPINION, be better to proceed slowly and methodically as is being done now. As you yourself have stated Rome was not built in a day, nor is any great endeavor.
Just my two cents. Want change?
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#19]
25 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#17] 25 May 2006
The land was flat by me, but burrowing through the ten foot snow drifts was a bummer.
Harvey,
While I am not a moderator or anything, I think THIS is one thread that should not be taken off topic. ( insert loud wrist slap sound here)
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#20]
25 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#18] 25 May 2006
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