Full Version: Thoughts and Decisions
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#10]
25 May 2006
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#8] 25 May 2006
At this point, we really don't know what some of the hard costs will be. I'm just trying to establish a starting point.
When we get into video production/post-production and Engraving Etc. Live! events (which will be videotaped and offered to those who couldn't attend) there will be substantial expenses.
We'll also be paying authors for articles/tutorials and instructors for online education. Those costs, at this point, are also unknown.
I'm attempting to make the site appealing to everyone, with full knowledge, not everyone will be pleased.
Like you, I feel a more private forum will open up the discussions, in some areas and promote a more professional atmosphere.
I didn't like the idea of separate forums and felt that would create an "us against them" (elitism) format, that could only spell trouble.
Obviously, in the early stages, our Premium Features will be a building process. Over time, the accumulation of those features, will be enough to boggle minds. :-)
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#11]
25 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#10] 25 May 2006
My only worry is that there will not be enough premium members to allow the fast growth of the premium features.
But otherwise it seems like a better plan. The private list of features we have, a large bit of them from forum member suggestions seems overwhelming in some respects from a time and money perspective. If the income is reduced, they will just take a bit longer to implement.
I think that this idea may be the best of both worlds, just a little slower to get everything done.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12]
25 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#11] 25 May 2006
I'm hoping the "entry level" membership will be attractive enough an offer, to inspire many people to join.
That would give us a better ($) footing, initially.
Some of the Premium Features can be generated more quickly than others; the TeleSeminars, PicTutorials, brief How-To Videos and Flash Tutorials, for example, can be generated fairly quickly.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#13]
25 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12] 25 May 2006
Unless you have some equipment hidden somewhere that I do not know about, that one might not be that fast. I do not have any of that equipment available.
From: PenMan [#14]
25 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#13] 25 May 2006
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#15]
25 May 2006
To: PenMan [#14] 26 May 2006
Try the old 16mm film cameras that took 400' of film. You were lucky.
(Prior life, engineer in CBS News Camera Engineering department.)
From: sprinter [#16]
25 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#15] 25 May 2006
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#17]
25 May 2006
To: sprinter [#16] 25 May 2006
Walk in our shoes for a mile and you will understand.
The land was flat by me, but burrowing through the ten foot snow drifts was a bummer.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#18]
25 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#11] 25 May 2006
Harvey,
Fast is not always equal to good. As recent history shows it would, in MY OPINION, be better to proceed slowly and methodically as is being done now. As you yourself have stated Rome was not built in a day, nor is any great endeavor.
Just my two cents. Want change?
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#19]
25 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#17] 25 May 2006
The land was flat by me, but burrowing through the ten foot snow drifts was a bummer.
Harvey,
While I am not a moderator or anything, I think THIS is one thread that should not be taken off topic. ( insert loud wrist slap sound here)
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#20]
25 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#18] 25 May 2006
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#21]
25 May 2006
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#20] 25 May 2006
I was hoping to have something in most of the categories, rather than in the works. I wanted the people in premium to at least see that things were being done rather than just underway.
The things that require outlay for equipment/programs would have to wait, but I did not want that to take too long. After all, when premium is paid, we want to see premium delivered, not just that it is coming.
I wanted the accusations of smoke and mirrors to be ended instantly. If it takes a while, it will still be viewed as smoke and mirrors, with good reason. By the way, I do not feel that the smoke and mirror accusations were totally wrong, we have nothing to show at the moment. If we show what we have at the moment, there goes the premium to the free site, (our free site). Then what do we have to offer?
As sprinter said, between a rock and a hard place. It is very true.
EDITED: 25 May 2006 by HARVEY-ONLY
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#22]
25 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#21] 25 May 2006
If only there were a soft bed between the two.
Speaking of which, I have an early morning tomorrow...
From: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#23]
25 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#21] 25 May 2006
From: bluepaw [#24]
25 May 2006
To: ALL
I hope no one here will take offense for my making a comment here.
If I am out of line just remove this and I will go back into my corner.
"It seems to me that what you are starting with the pay site is a business.
When you start a business you don't open the doors and hope to make enough money the first day to pay for everything.
When you open a business you have to invest up front for the startup with enough extra in the bank to cover expenses until the new venture takes off. If you start off underfunded then you are almost certainly doomed to failure.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#25]
25 May 2006
To: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#23] 28 May 2006
As the unset concept is at the moment you are correct. David and I need to spend a few hours on the phone again to try to jell what will be. We missed our two hour session last week, so this one may take four hours.
Just when you think you have it down pat, someone throws some new ideas into the mix and you have to re-examine everything. That was one of the reasons that there were no firm answers, then when we thought that there were some firm answers, we were inundated with new concepts. This site is rife with good thinkers, sometimes that is a bad thing, but usually a good thing.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#26]
25 May 2006
To: bluepaw [#24] 25 May 2006
That is usually the way to go if it is a business.
What we are trying to do is make this site a more valuable place for our members. Right now there is nothing in the bank but a deficit of everything that David has paid out. He has invested years and a good amount of cash on this site, and to move on there needs to be some income. A bad business plan, yes. A good move for our members, we certainly hope so.
Sometimes you have to think out of the box.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#27]
25 May 2006
To: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#23] 28 May 2006
Thinking out loud: If we get the low-cost, "basic cable" membership underway, we'll be able to get more of the "whistles and bells" rolling.
We've already shown some examples of Premium Features, in the way of our first TeleSeminar, with Anthony Coyne and assorted PicTutorials and Ruben's recent Camtasia Studio CS tutorial.
I've already been lining up guest speakers, for future TeleSeminars, including Diane Bosworth, on the topic of laser engraving and Mike O'Hara, on the topic of photography.
I've also been in contact with people with a knowldege of the history of our industry, including the son of a TDMA Hall of Famer, who are agreeing to be interviewed (audio).
We can add more features, under the heading of the basic membership, but the question then becomes; at what point do we determine there's enough "premium content" to justify an official premium level?
From: bluepaw [#28]
26 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#26] 27 May 2006
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#29]
26 May 2006
To: bluepaw [#28] 26 May 2006
It may start out as a labor of love, but eventually evolve into a full-time job if it is received well.
Some may perceive the subscription fee as a means of profiting. I perceive it as revenue necessary to replace the lost income David will sustain because of more time being focused on the features of the website for our benefit and enjoyment.
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