Full Version: Thoughts and Decisions

From: sprinter [#61]
 31 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#60] 31 May 2006

David,

For your video productions have you looked at Camtasia 3.1? It now has live video from a video camera input. I've been playing with the demo version and was so impressed I ordered the CD version. The full version is $300.

From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#62]
 31 May 2006
To: sprinter [#61] 31 May 2006

Ken,

I've only recently become aware of some of the technology we can bring to bear, which is incrediby exciting.

My head's exploding with ideas, based on the little bit I know.

I knew of Camtasia, for flash tutorials, but I'll definitely look into the video aspect.

Thanks for the heads up. :-) 

From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#63]
 31 May 2006
To: ALL

quote:
If you would have said that you want to start this new business venture where you do not have the moneys to get it off the ground properly and you need investors then you might of got people to want to invest in the new site. At that point you would need to give your investors something for their money (dividends). All others who wanted to join the site would have to pay and then those moneys would then cover cost and help pay for those dividends.
I'm getting caught up again, and wanted to comment on this. More specifically test the accuracy of my impression.

The investors are the forum members. Instead of a formal business plan where everything is on paper, the forum was set up out of pocket as a limited free sample. Now the sample time is coming to an end; membership fees will be the investment and expanded content the dividends.

Have I been reading the situation incorrectly since I first joined?

P.S. I like the new twist of basic and expanded content levels. Curious how "upgrades" will be handled.

From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#64]
 31 May 2006
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#63] 31 May 2006

quote:
P.S. I like the new twist of basic and expanded content levels. Curious how "upgrades" will be handled.


Could you be a little more definitive about what you mean by 'upgrades'? I am a bit unsure about what you specifically mean.

From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#65]
 31 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#64] 31 May 2006

quote:
Could you be a little more definitive about what you mean by 'upgrades'? I am a bit unsure about what you specifically mean.
If someone starts off with basic service then wants to step up to the full offering. Will they pay the prorated difference for the time remaining in the current subscription? If the initial membership was obtained during an initial promotional time period will those prices or the current ones be used? If initial members will have any ongoing benefit will it be available to members at both levels?

The questions above are more for thinking than an immediate answer.

From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#66]
 31 May 2006
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#65] 31 May 2006

I'm glad you clarified that. I had a totally different take on what you said. I thought you were referring to the 'upgrades' that would be in the premium site.

I will leave this one for David to answer as to how that will be handled. It may also be software related capabilities. Having this question in advance may help to get it done more flawlessly.

From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#67]
 31 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#66] 31 May 2006

Harvey,

I'm all for doing whatever it takes to keep things simple.

Even though John Fish is extremely capable, of setting things up whichever way we want, I don't want to present him, or our members, with the equivalent of "Chinese Algebra."

Thinking out loud:

It could be the best approach is to have one membership level (forum, as-is) and make the "Whistles and Bells" web site, a place where people can visit and order "products" as they choose.

From: sprinter [#68]
 31 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#67] 31 May 2006

David,

Most of the features you are talking about are already built into Beehive Forum software.

From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#69]
 31 May 2006
To: sprinter [#68] 31 May 2006

The question turned out to be about the financial jockeying of someone going from basic to premium.

Basically to be able to use the payment already made and applying it to the now to be discounted, (by virtue of the original subscription), rate for the premium level.

The software will easily take the change in levels, the payment software must be able to take this possibility into account. I see it as a decent percentage of the subscriptions in the future. Try out the forum, then go premium.

From: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#70]
 31 May 2006
To: ALL

Donation vs. Fee In "that other thread" it seemed that some were getting resentful and feeling it unfair that their input into this site was given free and now someone else was going to be gaining financially from their information. I would say that some of these same people would probably eventually find themselves complaining again because now they are having to actually pay to give their input while others, who did not give a donation, are gaining from that input for free. A fee across the board for everyone puts everyone on a somewhat level playing field. Fairness isn't an issue. With donations, there is uncertainty. One month may bring in enough to cover expenses and the next month there may be a need to beg for donations. With a set fee there will be no question of money coming in. Donations are fine, but fees are reliable.

From: sprinter [#71]
 31 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#69] 31 May 2006

Receiving the money will be the easy part, the hard part will be keeping the pipeline with fresh premium content. I haven't heard how often new premium content will be added, daily, weekly, monthly, yearly? If you don't have a library of new fresh content it will be difficult to keep members happy.

From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#72]
 31 May 2006
To: sprinter [#71] 31 May 2006

That is the hard part, if premium or general.

What it means is that we, gasp, may have to work even harder for the money.

New ideas are always tough, just look at the trade mags. Just because it is tough does not mean that we will slack, hopefully. I do not believe that any engraver that is still in business shies away from the difficult. All of us do it all the time. The impossible just takes us a little longer.

From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#73]
 31 May 2006
To: ALL

David , as I have said before , a fee to use the forum is a kiss of death.
The free at first vs Now pay forum thing is a bait and switch tactic which is guaranteed to p==s ppl off - as has been demonstrated.

Give the donors a "donor" wall which acknowledges their contribution and tag them as "donor" in their forum profile . silver/gold/platinum status or something like that. Promise donors a freebie or 2 from your add on site depending on their status , send em something to acknowldege their donation - surely some of the laser mnfgrs/material suppliers can put together a sampler package or some nice useful give aways - good advertising for them too.

From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#74]
 31 May 2006
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#73] 31 May 2006

quote:
a fee to use the forum is a kiss of death.


Rodney,

What facts are you basing that comment on? You have my attention.

I know you've personally bailed out on a photo forum, which used to be free and recently went to a pay model; does that mean there was a wholesale exodus of the members?

We're proposing $36 per year, which is less than many pay for a single tank of gasoline; less than many pay for a dinner for three, at an inexpensive restaurant; less than one cent per day.

I don't know about others, but one tank of gasoline lasts me about two days. A dinner is gone in less than an hour.

The forum will be here, day after day, week after week, month after month, with an abundance of money-making, time-saving tips, which if applied to a person's business, can only serve to help their bottom line.

It's, in essence, free.

EDITED: 31 May 2006 by DGL

From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#75]
 1 Jun 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#74] 1 Jun 2006

David , that photoforum was one of the more "serious" ones , very good contributors , chuck westphal of Canon and so forth , the moment it was sold and converted to pay , there was a wholesale exodus. I havent been back since cos there are other forums that dont ask me for money (As an aside , I have a 5d and can give your wife a ton of tips regarding it)
I have been on the internet for well over 12 yrs and have watched many sites try convert from a free to pay model - it's instant death to most of them.
This is not a value related thing , there is a vast difference between free and pay , even if its only 10c.
If you leave this site free , you will get a HUGE target audience to the Value added site. Lots of folk will say they will pay , but when it comes to crunch time , they wont and no contributors like myself and others who would never really get value out of a pay site will not stick around. All you will have as subscribers is newbie leeches.
Maybe the term leech is offensive to some , but in the final analysis , that is exactly what some posters are - suckers of info, sounds harsh but call a spade a spade.
I would also not make the value added site a subscription one , just charge small amounts for various items. For example Roy Brewers mail merge and impostion tutorial is worth lets say $10 to me , to get it , I would willingly have paid that !!!
As I have said before , this site works well as is , if it aint broken , don't 'fix" it and as I said before , not one person will begrudge you using this site to feed something you can make a bit of tom out of .

From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#76]
 1 Jun 2006
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#75] 1 Jun 2006

quote:
Maybe the term leech is offensive to some , but in the final analysis , that is exactly what some posters are - suckers of info...


That is one of the ideas of this forum. Many members start by being suckers of info, then learn enough and try new things, then tell us about it.

Welcome suckers of info, we will nurture you till you can contribute. We will have a smile on our face however long that takes.

Those who have not bought equipment and will not do so, will not be here that long, they will lose interest, unfortunate. Those that have bought equipment have an investment in their future, and will stay, learn, then contribute. That is the main reason I feel that this site works so well, nearly everyone is a true professional, (even if they are just starting out), and they act that way.

I hear what you are saying, but disagree with the conclusions. I truly do appreciate the input though.

From: sprinter [#77]
 1 Jun 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#74] 1 Jun 2006

I'm a bit confused here, so the basic or $36 a year will be for the status quo of the present forum, with the membership supplying the topics and input and solutions. And the premium membership will have videos, how-to's, lessons, etc supplied by you or your staff? Is this more or less correct?

From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#78]
 1 Jun 2006
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#75] 1 Jun 2006

quote:
David , that photoforum was one of the more "serious" ones , very good contributors , chuck westphal of Canon and so forth , the moment it was sold and converted to pay , there was a wholesale exodus. I havent been back since cos there are other forums that dont ask me for money


Rodney,

In the awards and engraving industry, EE is one of the more serious ones, with very good contributors. A person doesn't need to have iconic status, to be an excellent contributor.

If you haven't been back to the photoforum, can you honestly say there hasn't been a rebuilding of the membership, including some who originally left with you?

quote:
I have been on the internet for well over 12 yrs and have watched many sites try convert from a free to pay model - it's instant death to most of them.


I've been on the internet for about seven years and have watched a number of sites try to emulate the more popular free sites.

The sites were put together by skilled web designers, making the sites they were attempting to overshadow, look amateurish, by comparison.

What they were lacking, was the secret sauce; the magic blend of herbs and spices; the active enzymes or whatever chemistry constitutes a popular site.

Those sites were either taken down, or continue to sit there dormant.

Since all sites were free, the spectre of money, played no role in their demise.

Everyone, unless they're all-knowing, on virtually any subject, is an information leech.

I don't know of a single person, in that category.

From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#79]
 1 Jun 2006
To: sprinter [#77] 1 Jun 2006

quote:
I'm a bit confused here, so the basic or $36 a year will be for the status quo of the present forum, with the membership supplying the topics and input and solutions.


Ken,

Yes, just as with every pay forum, including those with substantially higher membership fees.

quote:
And the premium membership will have videos, how-to's, lessons, etc supplied by you or your staff? Is this more or less correct?


I'm still not dead-set on two membership levels, although the Videos, Articles, TeleSeminars, Tutorials etc., will be supplied not only by myself and the EE staff, but by qualified, paid submissions from other people, which could easily include yourself.

EDITED: 1 Jun 2006 by DGL

From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#80]
 1 Jun 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#76] 1 Jun 2006

Harvey , the reason I put back in is cos initially I WAS a leech , but for every leech there has to be a host. How will you ensure there is enogh blood to go round?
Forget ppl tha have bought equipment , if I didnt get my Q's answered pre buying , i wouldn't have bought in the first place.

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