Full Version: Xenetech fonts, are they all created equally?
From: joyce (JLADY) [#1]
6 Sep 2006
To: ALL
Are all engraving fonts created equally in quality?? I am still not happy with the quality of engraving and after having tried everything (somethings are a fix some of the time, but not all) I am wondering if there is something wrong with my fonts.
I have a xenetech 16x25, I bought this used and the fonts were already on the machine. I am wondering if these are the original fonts or someone elses and not as good quality?? Also my xenetech rep installed some fonts when we first got the machine and he was the one who sold this machine to the original owner, maybe these are the reps fonts and not the ones that come with xenetech????
Could the fonts be causing bad engraving? It is only on diamond drag I am having the problem. I tend to use the same fonts, I use roman3l, helvet3l, opreg19 the most.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#2]
6 Sep 2006
To: joyce (JLADY) [#1] 6 Sep 2006
What are the "defects" as you see them?
All fonts aren't created equal.
If some of the vertical lines are crossing intersections, (i.e. vertical lines of a Triple Line Roman font are crossing the horizontal lines at the tops and bottoms of letters), it's more than likely a machine adjustment issue.
If the space between characters (kerning) is sloppy, it's possibly an aftermarket font.
From: joyce (JLADY) [#3]
6 Sep 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#2] 6 Sep 2006
Yes there are vertical lines crossing each other and also on round letters there seams to be little hairs on the top and or the bottom (I call them hairs not sure how to describe them). Also it looks like there might be some uneven pressure within 1 line???
I have tried every single adjustment possible and it is either hit or miss, sometimes it looks fine, sometimes not. It is not the cutter as I used a brand new cutter first time and same ugly engraving.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#4]
6 Sep 2006
To: joyce (JLADY) [#3] 6 Sep 2006
Joyce,
It could be that the Z-axis (cutter up/down) bearings on the machine need adjusting.
I'm not very familiar with Xenetech equipment, but had similar problems with letter quality on a Dahlgren system and it turned out to be the ball-slides needed adjusting.
I don't think too many machines use ball-slides any more. It was an early Dahlgren System One.
If you can grab the spindle and move it back and forth with your hands, even slightly, it may need adjusting.
EDITED: 6 Sep 2006 by DGL
From: joyce (JLADY) [#5]
6 Sep 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#4] 6 Sep 2006
From: JHayes55 [#6]
6 Sep 2006
To: joyce (JLADY) [#5] 6 Sep 2006
Joyce - I have a Xenetech 16x25 that I purchased new at LV Trade show last Feb. Got it in March - Thus far I have never seen anything like you have described. We mainly do plastic tags on it and the quality of lettering is excellent. My best and strongest suggestion is to call your rep or Xenetech tech service. I think there is something wrong causing your problem but not the font itself. What type of speeds setting are you using when engraving plastics? Can you take a dig. photo of the problem area?
There are some other Xenetech users here that are much more experienced that I am that maybe able to give you some other suggestions.
So far I love mine. It is capable for much more than I am at this point.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#7]
6 Sep 2006
To: joyce (JLADY) [#1] 6 Sep 2006
Possibilities:
- The drag bit is sticking out too far and the shaft is flexing. This also happens when too much pressure is used.
- The thimble of the spindle or bearings are worn, giving some play. A bare few thousandths of an inch can have dramatic results.
- The X or Y systems are a few thousandths of an inch sloppy.
- The spindle is loose.
- The machine is being driven too fast and is losing steps.
- There is a controller problem. (Rare but if it loses steps it can do it.)
I am sure I missed a few but these are the main possibilities.
From: logojohn [#8]
6 Sep 2006
To: joyce (JLADY) [#3] 6 Sep 2006
This could also be a dull cutter or the metal itself. I keep one diamond drag for engraving brass only, a second one for plated gifts and a third for stainless steel.
You can check your font quality by printing out a large copy of it or just zooming in on the screen. (ctrl and O)
A few years ago we had a problem with the metal. At the tops of round edges or the cross strokes, the laquer coating would chip away resulting in what you call spiders. The cross overs might look like they extend to far but might actually be the laquer chipping off past where the cutter stops. We still get it once in awhile on some metals or when the cutters get dull. Sometimes it isn't noticeable until oxidized if it is satin brass, etc.
But we did also have 1 16x25 that had slightly wobbly vertical strokes. We ended up shipping it back to Xenetech for new rails, lead screws etc.
That machine was 8-10 years old with heavy use with hatch fills with a lot of back and forth movement.
Sometimes marginal quality metal can be useable by changing the spring tension or the downward pressure in the send dialog. Sometimes a light film of oil will prevent the metal from chipping. You don't want to have to do that all the time but it would help you troubleshoot the problem. If it cures the problem it is the laquer coating.
Xenetech tech support is good at figuring out problems. They had us send an engraved sample of a layout they provided. It showed the defects and they could tell what it was. Ours is non-viper. The viper may even have diagnostics they can access online to check.
The fonts haven't changed much. Some older ones don't have the accents and tildas we require with a large Hispanic area. We have several versions but not much different in the stroke path itself.
If it is an issue with bad kerning that can be corrected with the auto kerning turned on. You can also edit the ini file for any Xenetech or truetype font through the menu to change the amount of space between any two letter combinations permanently anytime that font is used.
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EDITED: 6 Sep 2006 by LOGOJOHN
From: JHayes55 [#9]
6 Sep 2006
To: joyce (JLADY) [#5] 7 Sep 2006
Joyce - a simple test you can run to see if the problem is in the machine itself - is to engrave a 1 inch circle with the diamond drag - single line font - then rotate it 90 degrees so it is on its side and engrave again - this makes the start point of the engraving change and allow you to see the path the engraver takes - if it not how it should be - (perfect circle) it is probably something in the machine that should help Xenetech or your rep determine the problem.
Logojohn - has forgot more about a Xenetech than I may ever know - also I know that Zona has run one for serveral years - Harvey and David also on the case - there should be a solution out there for you - all these folks know what there talk'n about.
I have probably run out of ideas. Good luck!
EDITED: 6 Sep 2006 by JHAYES55
From: joyce (JLADY) [#10]
7 Sep 2006
To: JHayes55 [#6] 7 Sep 2006
From: joyce (JLADY) [#11]
7 Sep 2006
To: ALL
How stupid am I!!
For the first time, I adjusted the pressure manually (about .05??) (I thought that was only used with a featherlite) and it seemed to help immensely, but when I look at the characters with a magnifier you can still see the sloppy engraving, but for now I think it is acceptable.
But I still don't understand why I can't adjust the pressure with the screw and use the automatic (proximity sensor), when I go real light it doesn't sense the material and engraves in the air.
By the way I tried the circle test. What I did was cut a 2x2 black brass, put a 1" circle (centered)
and when viewing on screen it is not actually centered (margins are L/R .1, top/bottom .5 aspect ratio 1.)
I turned the plate 4 times and got 4 different circles overlapping.
So.......................
From: basehorawards [#12]
7 Sep 2006
To: joyce (JLADY) [#11] 7 Sep 2006
Joyce,
I think when Joe was referring to rotating the image he meant to rotate it in the software (Plate / Sideways Right) rather than turning the material.
Also, if you sweep select the circle and then click the Justification button until it says Centered the Press Enter then click on "D" to redraw your circle will be centered side to side. To center up and down click on the "Y" button and then use your arrow keys to get the Y Center setting and set that to be half of the plate height.
Try the engraving again without moving the plate and see what you get.
EDITED: 7 Sep 2006 by BASEHORAWARDS
From: joyce (JLADY) [#13]
7 Sep 2006
To: basehorawards [#12] 7 Sep 2006
From: logojohn [#14]
7 Sep 2006
To: joyce (JLADY) [#11] 7 Sep 2006
Do you have the z axis spindle motor on and set to a low speed of about 2.
If it is off altogether the small belt that connects the spindle to the motor will create drag and not come completely down.
The motor doesn't stay on for the engraving. It just fires for a couple seconds while the cutter is descending so the belt doesn't hang up. Dont set the cutter speed real fast though as it won't stop fast enough and could leave some spin marks where it starts the first letter.
If you only do drag engraving but not burnishing, you can just remove the small belt altogether so it isn't necessary to have the motor come on at all.
A couple things to check in the Engraver setup.
Make sure you have something in the z float. Something like .02 should work on flat items.
Make sure the "Full Automatic Cutter Set" has a dot by it and not the manual or no cutter set at start.
If it still doesn't comes down remove the small belt. If you can't easily move the spindle up and down freely you have serious problems.
I had an old dahlgren with the ball slides to. This is nothing like that. It is incredibly solidly built with a tight fit that needs no adjustment.
I ordered ours with a 1/4 inch spindle. They are so thick you can drop it down well over an inch beyond the bottom and it doesn't flex at all.
If you are using a narrow one, as someone said, do not let it extend down too far or it could flex some and cause distortion.
.
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EDITED: 7 Sep 2006 by LOGOJOHN
From: joyce (JLADY) [#15]
7 Sep 2006
To: logojohn [#14] 7 Sep 2006
I have .15 in the z float recommended by my rep.
Ok...now I am able to lighten the pressure all the way using the automatic button.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#16]
7 Sep 2006
To: joyce (JLADY) [#15] 8 Sep 2006
From: logojohn [#17]
7 Sep 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#16] 7 Sep 2006
If it was close to the maximum compression, the .15 could present some of the problems you mentioned. But if it was set toward the less compressed end, .15 likely wouldn't be a problem on anything except soft metal like pewter.
They likely suggested .15 so there is some float in case something isn't flat. But most flat metal can be done with .05 or even less.
The spring can be set with very little pressure. I sometimes set the float up to 1/2 inch (and also increase the cutter up distance). This allows doing things like metal flasks, flashlights etc. that are round but can't be done on the cylindrical attachment. Between the float and the light spring pressure, it follows the curve on the item as far down as you can go without hitting the cutter bevel against it.
It will autosense the surface after each letter so could go up or down a slope a little at a time with it set at a low amount.
But if the line finishes at a low spot and a small cutter up is entered, when the cutter returns to the beginning of the next line it could gouge into the side of a raised area in the middle.
With the high settings it will also float over the whole item. That is necessary with an underline, decoration or logo that covers a large distance. Since it is one character, the autosensing will not adjust throughtout.
.
From: joyce (JLADY) [#18]
8 Sep 2006
To: ALL
From: joyce (JLADY) [#19]
11 Sep 2006
To: ALL
Now I am thinking it is the metal. I used a perp plt from tropar and it came out fine, then engraved it on laser brass from continental and it was horrible again.
Another side issue with my machine, the reason I was getting engraving in the air, is the belt isn't lowering immediately (there is a delay or not at all) because for whatever reason the spindle motor sporatically turns on.