Full Version: Please take me by the hand

From: gt350ed [#1]
 12 Sep 2006
To: ALL

I feel SO guilty and embarrassed by the fact that we have had this Vision Phoenix 1212 sitting here for a year now with almost no use for lack of finding/taking the time to learn how to use it. So, this repeat customer comes in today with a sign request. Typically, I would laser it for him using LaserMax. Only this time, he says "how did you ever make out in getting up to speed on that rotary engraver you bought". To make a long story short, he insists that I use his "project" to at least learn THIS aspect of using the machine. He is in no hurry but wants me to deliver a rotary engraved sign. If it's lasered, I have to buy him an expensive lunch. So, at the risk of having to buy all of YOU an expensive lunch, how do I go about this? The sign is 6" x 8", the letters are to be 1" tall, all caps and the font is to be Arial Black. Beyond zeroing the cutter, can someone offer step-by-step procedures for how to go about engraving this sign? Type of cutter, fill, and anything else I need to know? :'-(  I promise I'll buy you lunch.........someday B-) .........maybe. (devil) 

EDITED: 14 Sep 2006 by DGL

From: John (ICTJOHN) [#2]
 12 Sep 2006
To: gt350ed [#1] 13 Sep 2006

Ed,

How about someone else make the sign and send it to you and you give it to your customer............. (devil) 

I don't have the Vision software so no help there, but ---------:

1. Turn ON your computer
2. Start your engraving program
3. Set the dimensions of your plate
4. Load your Font (if not already loaded) *
5. type in your text
6. change the letter height to 1"
7. My software will tell me to use a .040 Flex cutter
8. You already zeroed your cutter, so now you want to adjust it so approx. .003 - .005 sticks out beyond the foot. You want to engrave just below the top cap but not so deep that you strike oil. (Less is More)
9. Hook up and turn on your vacuum chip removal unit
10. Turn on your Spindle motor
10. Press start and watch the MAGIC happen..................can't you just see the Dollars being printed????


* I used a 4 Line Helvetica font which will use a smaller diameter cutter than if you use a single line font. I changed to a single line font and it suggested to use a .125 cutter. (big difference)

You will want to slow the engraving speed (x y) down - slower than diamond drag engraving since you are actually removing material.


I'm sure others will jump in here to give pointers as well.....


That should get you started.

 


hth,

From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#3]
 12 Sep 2006
To: gt350ed [#1] 13 Sep 2006

The basic determination of a cutter size is:

Line height / number of lines in the font / 8.

If it is a filled font always go to the next larger bit. If you want to see the lines divide that final number by about 2.5.

This works on most fonts. Old English is an exception, you need to go even smaller because 3 line OE is not really a three line font, closer to a true 5 line font.

When you set up your line height, subtract the bit size from the desired height and the letters will be dead on size.

From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#4]
 14 Sep 2006
To: gt350ed [#1] 15 Sep 2006

Ed,

What's the copy for the sign?

Judging by the 6x8 size, I'd say a 1" character will be too large. A loose rule of thumb would be one-character-per-inch, with a typeface such as Arial, which I'm pretty sure your machine doesn't have as a stock scaleable font.

A multi-line Helvetica would/should be close enough, for the untrained eye. Arial Black is a bold font, but by using a wider cutter, you'll be able to create a bold letter.

Otherwise, you'll have to use a true type font, with a fill pattern, which will take much more time to engrave.

I've worked with Vision equipment, but since it's been occasional, I don't have the software memorized. I'd need to have the machine in front of me.

Your sign should only require an "autolayout" which basically asks for plate size, character height and margins. From there, you can use the Graphic Display to see if your layout is pleasing to the eye.

quote:
I have to buy him an expensive lunch.


When do you need to have the sign done?

Depending on the answer to that question, I like expensive lunches and haven't been to Victor Valley for a while. :-) 

I may be able to drop by and take some photos for your Member Spotlight, along with the primer on running your Vision.

From: Mike (MIKEN) [#5]
 15 Sep 2006
To: gt350ed [#4] 17 Sep 2006

Ed:

I am willing to step up and end your embarrassment at being unable to use that machine.

Since Joe Hayes established a market value for that model last night I'm willing to give you Joe's price ($1500) for your machine and end your worries.

Then i can be embarrassed at not being able to run it.

From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#6]
 15 Sep 2006
To: gt350ed [#1] 17 Sep 2006

quote:
I posted this on EE but it rec'd little coverage. I'm disappointed.....

Ed,

This was a quote from you on the World of Engraving Forum on this same subject, which you highlighted in red type for some reason. I'm sorry you were disappointed by the level of support that was provided by the members here. I don't know what your hidden message was, but that kind of statement isn't going to garner you the willingness of others to help you in the future. How do you think John feels right about now? Maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

The lack of response here may have something to do with the obscurity of the unit you purchased. I am not discounting the quality of the Vision brand at all, and I know there are a few here that own them, but there aren't as many as other brands.

There were some attempts to help you with general steps in set-up, but in-depth training is likely going to require you to bring in some on-site training.

I'm really not surprised by the lack of response on this one.

EDITED: 16 Sep 2006 by DATAKES

From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#7]
 16 Sep 2006
To: gt350ed [#1] 17 Sep 2006

I thought the response from John was quite thorough. If you still had questions, you should have posted them. I am sure that everyone else thought it was covered also.

The additions in a few posts covered a few aspects.

From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#8]
 16 Sep 2006
To: gt350ed [#4] 17 Sep 2006

Ed,

Even though my post was a bit tongue-in-cheek, my offer is genuine.

I'm willing to come to your shop and get you up and running with your Vision machine.

Let me know if you have a day you can devote to that cause and I'll try to make the constellations align.

We can work on both rotary and diamond-drag fundamentals and auto/manual layouts.

I like cheap lunches too. :-) 

From: Myyk [#9]
 16 Sep 2006
To: ALL

First, take your machine manual. Open it and begin to read...............

From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#10]
 17 Sep 2006
To: Myyk [#9] 17 Sep 2006

Sometimes, manuals leave a lot to be desired, but they do a pretty good job of covering the basics, which is always the place to start.

Of course, "real men" never refer to manuals. :-) 

From: gt350ed [#11]
 17 Sep 2006
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#6] 17 Sep 2006

I am most appreciative for John's response to my thread, as well as David L.'s subsequent reply. I have been away from the computer for a couple of days and have not, as yet, responded appropriately to them individually.

But, beyond John and David L, I think if you actually read what I was requesting, which was NOT a brand specific request so as to alleviate the "obscurity of the unit" as an issue.....and then go back and read the initial responses up to the time of my post on World of Engraving, you might share my "disappointment". But probably not.

My intent was not to pit the two forums against one another, many of the members of which belong to both. My only intent was to seek a "specific" response to my query....as opposed to suggestions that I sell a $10,000 machine for $1500. Or that my Vision brand is somehow "obscure". It's not. My particular model has been in use for a long time with many users. Perhaps what you meant was that the product line is "obscure" to YOU.

I make no apologies for my quote on the other forum. It was how I felt at that moment. And, frankly, your response kind of makes my point. Are we here to help each other....or pontificate?

From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12]
 17 Sep 2006
To: gt350ed [#11] 17 Sep 2006

quote:
My intent was not to pit the two forums against one another, many of the members of which belong to both. My only intent was to seek a "specific" response to my query...


It's not as important where an answer comes from, than that a sufficient answer is received.

Did you receive a specific response to your question(s) at WOE?

EDITED: 17 Sep 2006 by DGL

From: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#13]
 17 Sep 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12] 17 Sep 2006

I believe frustration is felt on both forums now...... for someone that is only 6 years old ( profile data ) ( 106 on WOE ) we must bare with him. GT has been with us for over 730 posts and now is intolerant because we cannot give him the answer....as it relates to DOS. A personal guide has offered their services and that apprears to have gone on deaf ears.

Why not just job out the sign and take credit for knowing how to turn the monitor on.

From: UncleSteve [#14]
 17 Sep 2006
To: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#13] 17 Sep 2006

quote:
take credit for knowing how to turn the monitor on.


And dial the phone? (devil) 

From: gt350ed [#15]
 17 Sep 2006
To: UncleSteve [#14] 17 Sep 2006

Now this is exactly the answer to my thread that I was looking for.

Thank you.

From: gt350ed [#16]
 17 Sep 2006
To: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#13] 17 Sep 2006

I don't have any control over what appears in parentheses in my profile. At least, I don't believe I do.

All I know is that on the EE forum, I listed my age as "Fifty-something". And on the WOE engraving forum, I did not list my age at all.

The offer of a "personal guide" was very generous. Just not the answer to my thread that I was hoping for. Nevertheless, I'll be in contact with that generous individual by PM.

As for...
quote:
Why not just job out the sign and take credit for knowing how to turn the monitor on.


...is that the way YOU do it?

Thanks for your help. It's very much appreciated.

From: gt350ed [#17]
 17 Sep 2006
To: John (ICTJOHN) [#2] 19 Sep 2006

Thank you John. I have included your feedback in a folder to be used as a guide as I experiment and otherwise sort this all out. I appreciate your time and thought in an effort to assit me.

From: gt350ed [#18]
 17 Sep 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#4] 17 Sep 2006

Thank you David. Although your offer is very generous, and I may take you up on it in the future relating to OTHER matters, it is not the answer to my thread that I was hoping for. Nevertheless, I'll be in touch by PM.

BTW, the 1" text height DOES fit on the sign as dimensioned. And the font intended is ARIEL BLACK.

From: gt350ed [#19]
 17 Sep 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#5] 17 Sep 2006

Thank you for your response, Mike. It was very well thought ought and equally helpful.

From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#20]
 17 Sep 2006
To: gt350ed [#18] 17 Sep 2006

Ed,

That's fine; my offer doesn't have an expiration date. :-) 

As far as EE (or any other forum) not being able to deliver the answers you were looking for, (and to put it in a context you can appreciate), you'd have to picture yourself in the position of replying to a person (in print) who asks you for the comprehensive, step-by-step procedures, to laser engrave the sign, detailing all the steps and nuances necessary to complete the job.

I doubt that Dennis Trifletti (owner of Vision) himself, would have the ability to sufficiently answer your questions, without posting the equivalent of a manual.

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