Full Version: Floor Tiles
From: Sei (SEIMA) [#1]
18 Nov 2004
To: ALL
Uhm, well, wow. I've had my sublimation equipment for all of, oh.... 4 working days now, and I've just gotten a request for a 9' x 9' mural. Catch is they want it on the floor. Wasn't expecting that before I now what I'm doing.
What sorta tile do those who sublimate recommend? I know the glass tiles are the next big thing. I want the most durable, attractive, easiest to handle piece available that will also be a cost effective option.
I know the Dye-sub forum is probably a better place to ask, but I already know you all and this place. More comfort here. Figured I'd give the old familiar grounds first shot.
Thanks!
Sei
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#2]
18 Nov 2004
To: Sei (SEIMA) [#1] 18 Nov 2004
Sei,
I assume you're getting into ink jet sublimation, as opposed to laser.
The glass tiles would be your best bet for longevity. That's because the image is on the back of the tile and not subject to physical contact. The glass also contains UV resistance, making the likelihood of fading less an issue. The textured surface of the Bison tempered glass tiles is designed and rated for a walkable surface.
If you choose to use a ceramic tile, you'll need to overcoat the tiles after imaging. The overcoat offers UV resistance as well as the all-important abrasion resistance.
The composition of floor tiles is different than most. Usually a red or dark brown color to the tile, except, of course, for the white glaze on the printable surface. Not sure if any of the sublimation suppliers coat that type of tile. May have to coat your own or have them done as a custom run.
That's the short answer. Much more to it, including enlarging your image with minimum loss of resolution.
As you say, DSSI will be the hotbed of information, but if you're comfort level is here, there are people capable of answering your questions.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
EDITED: 18 Nov 2004 by DGL
From: Rallyguy [#3]
19 Nov 2004
To: Sei (SEIMA) [#1] 19 Nov 2004
I have to agree wiht David here,
The only real viable option for a floor mural is with the glass tiles. Any other type of product at this time will have a coating that will wear due to abrasion. One other option is a full color digital adhesive material that they use on the floors at grocery stores and such. They are very durable and are meant to be removed in the end and replaced by another ad. These should be available from any good large format digital print house as a floor graphic.
Brian G.
From: Geezer (ERNIE) [#4]
19 Nov 2004
To: Rallyguy [#3] 19 Nov 2004
Brian-David-Sei
Just to play devils advocate here.
Why not consider using kiln fired decals on tiles. They provide durability, extremely good UV life and excellent color rendition.
As the the ink revolution evolves (raising prices at every chance); decals become a more viable alternative for murals/mosaics.
Ernie
From: Rallyguy [#5]
19 Nov 2004
To: Geezer (ERNIE) [#4] 19 Nov 2004
Your right Ernie,
Kiln fired decals would be a great alternative. Cost may get high, but I understand that they have come a long way on getting better color reproduction.
Thanks for the reminder that there are other options out there ;)
Brian G.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#6]
19 Nov 2004
To: Geezer (ERNIE) [#4] 19 Nov 2004
Ernie,
You definitely raise a good point.
I was trying to advise Sei on something he could create in-house, with existing equipment.
BUT!
Seeing that his shop has only had sublimation equipment for a very short while, my immediate advice, would be (no matter which process) farm the job out this time around.
Those are the kind of jobs one surely wants to develop a reputation for, though, coming up with a product of less than a customer's expectations, could result in developing the wrong reputation.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
www.engravingetc.org
From: Sei (SEIMA) [#7]
19 Nov 2004
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#6] 19 Nov 2004
Thanks for the advice, but it looks like it's a no go.
They were looking to spend about $1000 on the project, which translates to $12.35 a square foot. Installed.
Go big spenders.
Sigh.
Sei
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#8]
19 Nov 2004
To: Sei (SEIMA) [#7] 22 Nov 2004
Sei,
May be the good news.
By the way, what kind of equipment do you have?
We may be able to make suggestions for what kind of jobs will lend themselves to what you have.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: UncleSteve [#9]
19 Nov 2004
To: Sei (SEIMA) [#7] 22 Nov 2004
Sei, half the battle is knowing which jobs NOT to accept and this sounds like a good candidate!
They will either get a poor job done or no job done at that price. Either way, you have both learned a good lesson and it didn't cost YOU too much.....
From: Sei (SEIMA) [#10]
22 Nov 2004
To: UncleSteve [#9] 22 Nov 2004
Tell that to my boss... the owners here never turn anything away. It's put me in a spot a couple of times. Luckily I run pretty much independantly of the other departments here, and more or less get left alone.
Not knowing what to turn away gets the vinyl and electrical departments in trouble on a weekly basis. Unfortunately the owners has taken quite an interest in the sublimation equipment I just had his shell our for, and was trying to sell large murals a month before he signed off on the purchase. No bites yet, but it's only a matter of time.
Add to that the attitude, "We have to start dirt cheap to get some showcase pieces out there. Then we can raise prices," and I'd just as soon leave them out of everything. Especially when the numbers come back and they ask me why I'm not making any money.
One month vinyl had $18,000 in discounts and undercharges. But I'm getting off on a tangent...
As far as this project goes, it came directly to me. Good because it means I control production and pricing. My feeling is that, while a challenge, it would be doable, for the right price. I'd ballparked it for them at $5000, or rougly $61 a square foot.
David, as far as my equipment goes we started middle of the road with a Geo Knight press, 14 x 16, and a Epson 1280 system with a bulk system and Artanium inks from Laser Reproductions. Any guidence you can offer is well welcomed. Right now I'm mostly trying to expand on the signage and plaques we already offer.
Thanks,
Sei
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#11]
22 Nov 2004
To: Sei (SEIMA) [#10] 22 Nov 2004
Sei,
Is the 14 x 16 heat press a swing-away model? If not, it would be a clam style. Unless a clam style heat press has a floating bottom platen, which will self-adjust for even pressure across thicker items, pressing tiles may be a bit more difficult. Not impossible.
The 1280, with its 13 x 19 transfer capability will be good for award plaques and indoor signage.
Do you have movie/tv production companies in your area? They'd be interested in quick, colorful signage, as well as plaques for set decoration.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
EDITED: 22 Nov 2004 by DGL
From: Sei (SEIMA) [#12]
22 Nov 2004
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#11] 22 Nov 2004
David,
It's a clamshell, but so far I haven't had any serious problems with uneven pressure on the thick stuff. Granted I haven't done too much thick stuff (or thin stuff for that matter) yet, but hopefully I'll get the hang of it.
Plaques and signage are the bulk of what I want to do, but every year there's a push to break into gifts around Christmas which never really gets anywhere.
Thanks for the idea with the movie production houses. We have a couple of those in the area as well as a lot of live theaters. Not to mention film classes at the local schools. It's a market I hadn't really considered before.
Thanks,
Sei
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#13]
23 Nov 2004
To: Sei (SEIMA) [#12] 23 Nov 2004
In my opinion, the bet advise that we can give you at this point in your venture, is to test and sample all media before you go out and offer to do it. You have to invest some more money in the business in printables, transfer paper, ink, and time.
Obtain samples of a variety of printable product, select a variety of different types of art, vector, bitmap, photos, clip art....learn the different results of different art on the different medias.
Your pricing on the floor tiles looked about right, maybe just a tad low, especially if you're offering the glass tiles, which I feel are the best way to go today.
Good luck on your extension to your business, Have fun!
Doug
From: Sei (SEIMA) [#14]
23 Nov 2004
To: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#13] 23 Nov 2004
Would be nice to be able to do that, but I'm already in trouble for not making any return in 2 weeks. ...while trying to keep everything else going.
Sei