Full Version: Dye Sub on Metal
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#1]
14 Oct 2006
To: ALL
I'm getting beautiful results on mugs, nametags and frp but I can't get metal to sublimate without sticking and without faded looking images. I have both the JDS metal and the Unisub metal (both white).
Using 400 degrees and about 40 lbs of pressure. Have TruPix for artainium and Textprint XP paper. Have removed the plastic cover from the metal.
I have called tech support at both suppliers but still can't resolve the problem.
Would appreciate your help.
EDITED: 14 Oct 2006 by DGL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#2]
14 Oct 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#1] 14 Oct 2006
You only need enough pressure to ensure direct contact between the metal and the transfer paper.
You may also be pressing the material for too long. One minute is more than sufficient.
From: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#3]
14 Oct 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#1] 14 Oct 2006
I use NovaChrome metals......they have got to be the best on the market. and the price is higher for the quality (Ultacoat)
I have use Dynacoat sold by a local supplier with great results but his gold and silver do not come close to NovaChrome...
I assume your press time on the JDS and
Unisub are 50-65 seconds.......?
Press with Back of metal up....paper on bottom..........
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#4]
14 Oct 2006
To: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#3] 14 Oct 2006
Mark,
Thanks for bringing that up. VERY important that the front of the metal is facing away from the heat source.
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#5]
14 Oct 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#4] 14 Oct 2006
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#6]
14 Oct 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#1] 14 Oct 2006
My first guess is that you are using a metal that is not developed for dye sub, but does work (poorly). There are several of them out there...
I am puzzled with what you say about your experience with the Unisub however. It's coating is so hard that it never sticks or leaves a hazy appearance.....so I am not sure that it is metal alone....I'm very surprised you are having problems with Unisub, as their metal takes a really good image...It normaly draws what seems to be almost all of the dye off the paper no matter what kind you use.....
I would be happy to send you some samples of the metal that we sell. (our own development) It is not an outdoor product like Unisub, but takes colors very well, has better edge definition, and the red's are more red (as in fire engine) than when you use Unisub (reds tend to go orange, and flesh tones tend to get peachy looking with Unisub) Both Unisub and our metal have their place.....so we stock both.
Our metal is .025 thick, Unisub is typicaly .030 thick and most of the other lower cost metals are .020 thick.
E-mail me your info and a sample .eps .ai, or bitmap file, and I will send some free metal samples along with a pressed sample for your comparison.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#7]
14 Oct 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#1] 14 Oct 2006
I sub the good metal face up, paper on top. A foam rubber heat pad on top of that.
Unisub is great metal.
Have you used an infra-red thermometer on some black tape in the center of the platen? I have seen some presses 35*F higher than the digital readout. Even at 425* I have not had paper stick to Unisub.
The pressure may be too high, try 30 Lbs setting.
Have you force dried the paper first? Close the press for 10 seconds then open the press and immediately place the paper on it face up. It will get sticky after a few seconds, then get papery again. That is the moisture from the paper evaporating. It allows a lot lower pressure to be used and less failures.
EDITED: 14 Oct 2006 by HARVEY-ONLY
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#8]
14 Oct 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#7] 14 Oct 2006
Harvey,
Production suggestion for you (and anyone else that wants to save time pressing)...........
Use an old t-shirt on the platen, and press metal face down for 60 seconds. No need for a foam pad, and the fabric from the t-shirt lets any steam/moisture from the paper escape with no blow outs....so no pre-heating necessary.
We do this day in and day out and can press transfers right off the printer with no blow out problems......We use accuplot paper.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#9]
14 Oct 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#8] 15 Oct 2006
One of the problems with blowouts is that the surface of the paper has a vapor barrier, that is why it works for sublimation. Accuplot and others use a special clay for that barrier. It is not the moisture in the paper that is the problem, it is the moisture stored in the surface coating and from the ink. Those are on the pressing side. That is why that side feels sticky for a few seconds.
Some of the things that I do cannot be pressed through the substrate, so I have gotten used to always doing it the same way. I picked up a 1/16" grey silicon pad from Mick a few years ago and it sure beats the original one I had. It works well for sublimation and Color Laser toner transfer.
I learned early on the problems with surface moisture, especially working in a humid basement area. It is so much a part of my routine that it really takes no time at all. If you are doing multiple pressings, just take the item out and lay the paper down, then move the pressed item to the cooling area. By the time you turn around again, the paper is dry.
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#10]
14 Oct 2006
To: ALL
I'll keep you posted on my progress.
From: JHayes55 [#11]
15 Oct 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#10] 15 Oct 2006
Message 5096.12 was deleted
From: jumbo (JIMCLOUGH) [#13]
15 Oct 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#1] 15 Oct 2006
Mike
Just a thought, but you are removing the transparent film before pressing?
Jim
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#14]
15 Oct 2006
To: jumbo (JIMCLOUGH) [#13] 15 Oct 2006
Yes, I think that Brian, Harvey and Joe are pointing me in the rght direction I'll just have to work on it some more. Most of my sub work is frp or mugs so I haven't spent much time with the metals.
Thanks,
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#15]
15 Oct 2006
To: JHayes55 [#11] 15 Oct 2006
Joe:
Thanks for the offer. I'll fool around with some of these suggestions and see if I can solve it. But I may end up calling you for help.
I'm going to try Brian's t-shirt idea first because it's cheap and easy.
EDITED: 15 Oct 2006 by MIKEN
From: gt350ed [#16]
15 Oct 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#14] 15 Oct 2006
Over the years, I have used Novachrome, JDS and Unisub, in that order. Unisub metals, particularly white aluminum, are far and away the best.
With my Knight 20KS swing away digital press, I press at an indicated 400 - 402 degrees for about 50 seconds. I get great results. My transfer paper is Accuplot. Always has been.
Good luck! You'll figure it out, I'm sure.
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#17]
15 Oct 2006
To: gt350ed [#16] 15 Oct 2006
Thank you. Where are you buying accuplot?
From: gt350ed [#18]
15 Oct 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#17] 15 Oct 2006
Others here on the forum may have other suppliers of Accuplot paper within your neighborhood.
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#19]
15 Oct 2006
To: gt350ed [#18] 16 Oct 2006
I'll check further. Just was't aware of my regular suppliers carrying it.
To date I've had good luck with Textprint XP but can't seem to find the right combination of anything for True Pix. As I said before I haven't been able to do anything on metal with either one but I'll experiment with the suggestions previously made and see where it takes me.
Thanks,
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#20]
15 Oct 2006
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#19] 16 Oct 2006
Mike,
Sometimes, hi-release papers, such as Textprint XP, aren't compatible with metal. Releases too much dye, leading to "cockeling" or a "beading" appearance.
1401, commonly known as True Pix has pretty much replaced Accuplot as the industry standard.
Why?
1) Thicker sheet thickness, results in fewer "feed" problems.
2) Better release of dye, for more vibrant colors.
3) Better archivability; meaning you can print transfers further ahead of actual pressing, without the transfers bleeding or migrating.
Note: It's never a good idea to print transfers "too" far ahead of your pressing schedule; meaning more than a couple of days.
I can't understand, with the information you've given, why you're having such a difficulty in printing metal.
If you'd like, you can send me some of your transfers and metal samples and I may be able to CSI your problem.
EDITED: 15 Oct 2006 by DGL
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