Full Version: Rainforests...our world dissapearing

From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#13]
 16 Oct 2006
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#12] 16 Oct 2006

Good points.....




Also very true ;) 

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From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#14]
 17 Oct 2006
To: Peter [#1] 17 Oct 2006

The thing that really scares me is the pollution in the shallow waters over the continental shelf. I have seen figures that between 60% and 80% of the oxygen generated comes from the plant life in these waters. This then would be one of the most dangerous areas on the Earth to poison.

We need to attack these attacks on the environment in all places.

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From: basehorawards [#15]
 17 Oct 2006
To: Peter [#1] 17 Oct 2006

From the website:



The last estimate I read in the book "1691" puts the number of natives in the americas at equal to or greater than the number of europeans at the same time. Accounts written by early Spanish explorers tell of seeing villages (really cities) going on for miles and miles along the banks of the rivers. Interesting how many people and the forests survived. Man has been manipulating his environment for as long as he has existed. We moderns just are not as good as the old timers were.

The soil in the rainforests of south america is extremely poor as most of the nutrients are in the plants. There are patches (some tens of acres in size) of very fertile soil that are used today to grow orchards. These patches were created by natives by a process that is lost to us. Excavations show pottery shards and other clear signs of alteration. Carbon dating of the shards puts the ages of the patches in the thousands of years. And they are still fertile today! Nobody has a clue how to make the soil. All of the people who did died when the europeans arrived. Unfortunately for the world the indigenous populations had immune systems adapted mainly to bacterial attacks rather than viral attacks so when the europeans arrived with small pox, measles and such millions died before the first battles even began. What a shame disease and then arrogance cost humanity so much.

It would be hijacking the thread to start talking about the perception of the natives being "savages" and that being justificaion for killing those who did not die of disease or convert - especially when comparing them to what was going on in europe at the same time so I won't start.

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From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#16]
 17 Oct 2006
To: basehorawards [#15] 17 Oct 2006

Anyone who did not have their religious beliefs were savages. Hmm, that is a pretty savage set of beliefs in itself. Liken it to what is happening today.

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From: basehorawards [#17]
 17 Oct 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#16] 17 Oct 2006

One of the other reasons besides religion used to justify the killing was the human sacrifices. When these guys fought they fought to capture. when the war was over they killed the captured enemies as sacrifices to their gods. In europe they fought to kill and when they won the killed all the rest of the males including the young, old and infirm, and raped the women. So much more civilized.

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From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#18]
 17 Oct 2006
To: basehorawards [#15] 17 Oct 2006

James,
What I find even more sad is that that same arrogance continues to cost us today. We ( humans ) are NOT owners of this planet, we are caretakers and not very good ones at that. :-( 

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From: basehorawards [#19]
 17 Oct 2006
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#18] 17 Oct 2006

So true. A lot of the huge raging forest fires we have had over the past 20 or so years have been because of our "management" style of putting out every fire as soon as possible. An earlier post mentioned low burning fires clearing the underbrush and helping the conifer seeds to open. When we don't let the little fires clear out the "slash" then we end up with clogged tangled messes that turn into infernos that kill all the trees instead of just scorching the bark. We hiked in Yellowstone a few years back in areas that had burned. It was very sad and yet very comforting to see nature recovering from our "management."

Interestingly enough in that book "1691" (the year before Columbus discovered north america) they mention the journals of early european explores describing the skies as being full of smoke and that it seemed that the Indians were always burning the forest or the grassland. One account told of an Englishman being able to ride his horse at full gallop through the forests of New England. The indians burnt the underbrush if nature did not do it for them. Easier to hunt if there are fewer places for the animals to hide. It was only after most of the indians died or were relocated that the forests became as thick as they are today. the ones they like to call "old growth" and "pristine" are only like that because the caretakers got run off and killed.

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From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#20]
 17 Oct 2006
To: basehorawards [#19] 17 Oct 2006

James,
I wonder what the forests did BEFORE people were here?

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From: basehorawards [#21]
 17 Oct 2006
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#20] 17 Oct 2006

Good question. I like to think that they grew and died and burned according to God's design.

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From: UncleSteve [#22]
 18 Oct 2006
To: basehorawards [#19] 19 Oct 2006

Just because!!!!!! How does that relate to the news in "1492" ???? (devil) 

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From: basehorawards [#23]
 19 Oct 2006
To: UncleSteve [#22] 19 Oct 2006

Whoops! I have to plead victim of public schools and poor memory. I did not think that date sounded right (you know the ditty "In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue...") but did not take the time to check.

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