Full Version: EPS, MAC, CorelDRAW issue
From: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#1]
8 Nov 2006
To: ALL
A question (two actually) for those of you who might be familiar with both MAC(or possibly just Illustrator?) and Corel.
The attached file created by the Art dept at a major university using MACs.
Note that the attached EPS file when properly imported into CorelDRAW has some "letters" that are "duplicated." Ah, but not exactly the same letters are duplicated in both 12 & X3! This indicates this might be a Corel problem(?).
Ungroup, after importing, and then drag each character and you'll see what I mean by "duplicated;" that is, some letters have an outline. Is this the case on your MAC? Or, in illustrator? If so why?
Question two: why is it that much artwork created on MACs have the single path for characters with inclusions? [Look at the attached file in wireframe if you are not already aware of that to which I refer. ]
Interested? I think I'll immediately post another EPS from the same source with similar "duplication" but not on letters.
EDITED: 5 Dec 2006 by ROYBREWER
From: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#2]
8 Nov 2006
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#1] 8 Nov 2006
As in previous post, the attached file created on MAC.
This is what happens on my PC after importing into either Corel12 or X3.
When ungrouped, the "tree/house" object is duplicated; all other items not. This is ostensibly a vectorized scan of some pretty crummy artwork; no reason for this duplication(?).
These duplications, really mess things up when pasted into many engraving programs. Note the duplications appear to be perfect dupes, as opposed to Corel would call a "contour."
If you make the same observation, do you know what causes this? The MAC operators have no idea what I'm talking about---they will hardly talk to me when I tell them I've troubleshooting with a PC!!!!
EDITED: 5 Dec 2006 by ROYBREWER
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3]
8 Nov 2006
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#2] 9 Nov 2006
I'm not seeing attachments in either of your posts.
From: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#4]
9 Nov 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3] 9 Nov 2006
Thanks.
I've corrected my mistake. Apparently I Browsed, and went to Complete w/o #2 Upload!
Hopefully the MAC/Illustrator gurus will go back and take another look.
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#5]
9 Nov 2006
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#4] 10 Nov 2006
Roy, I opened your first EPS in Illustrator CS2. Each of the "I"s have both a shape created for the letter (like all the rest of the letters) plus have an additional outline.
A wild guess would be that whoever created this felt that the "I" letters from the original font were too thin, and perhaps they used the outline to make the letter thicker so they matched the rest of the letters better.
I've done that in the past to tweak the look of certain letters in a logo where those letters don't have the uniform look I was after.
But I'm just guessing at the motivation. The outlines are in the EPS, so it's nothing to do with Corel converting the file. Also, because it's just the "I"s I would guess it has nothing to do with Mac vs PC or something inherent in Illustrator. I would think it was done on purpose by the creator of the file.
My guess is that in the original font, the dots of the "I"s were above the top line of the other letters and this was done to reduce the height of the "I"s so the total height, including the dots was the same height as the rest of the letters. In doing that, the thickness of them changed too thin, so an outline was added to thicken them.
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#6]
9 Nov 2006
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#4] 10 Nov 2006
Hmmmm..... the above was based purely on looking at the EPS file in Illustrator. Seeing it in Corel X3 gives different results than I would have expected.
Here's what I think is going on. Some letters have both a fill and an outline. Others have just a fill or just an outline, but not both.
When I open it in X3 the ones that had both (which are a single object in AI) are imported as 2 objects in X3. One for the filled part and one for the outline part.
The "I"s are compound paths in Illustrator with one compound path being fill only and one compound path being the outline only. When opened in X3 the outlined "I"s broke into 2 outlines. One for the dot and one for the main part. The filled versions of the "I"s came in as a single compound fill shape. So each "I" started as 2 objects in Illustrator and ended up as 3 objects in X3. At the same time the other letters were single objects and all had both a fill and outline in Illustrator and came into X3 as 2 objects each. One for the fill and one for the outline.
This was done using the File Open in X3 and selecting "curves" in the choice of opening as text or curves.
EDITED: 9 Nov 2006 by DAVERJ
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#7]
9 Nov 2006
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#4] 10 Nov 2006
OK, I just did this test in X3. Interesting....
I created a new drawing in X3 and placed a single letter in it. I set a fill and an outline.
I saved it as Adobe Illustrator format.
I closed the original and opened the saved file.
The drawing now has 2 objects. One for the fill and one for the outline.
Didn't try other file formats, but it may be the way X3 deals with importing/exporting objects with both a fill and an outline.
EDITED: 9 Nov 2006 by DAVERJ
From: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#8]
10 Nov 2006
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#7] 11 Nov 2006
I'm truly appreciative of your time on this. Your observations are very helpful.
But it wasn't just the "i," right? e.g., the "s" and "g" also had the filled object + the outline object. I like you, noticed the *3* parts of the "i" and thought that the outline was to "hold together" the parts of the letter. My X3 opens the file with a group of 33 objects for only 16 letters!
Not to press my luck, but did you notice in illustrator if the letters with inclusions were also single path? Or, does Illustrator even have a "wireframe" view? I've asked that standing behind Illustrator operators before and they didn't understand the question.
If not clear, look at the file in corel in wireframe and you'll see what I mean on the a, d, e, g. For years I've noticed that many graphics created on MACs exhibit this, but I never understood if it's certain fonts that certain MAC programs use or if it is due to the conversion to PC.
From: sprinter [#9]
10 Nov 2006
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#8] 13 Nov 2006
Roy,
I have had the same problem with mac AI files, have them save the file as PDF compatable and "NO" compression, this usually corrects the prooblem.
Adobe Illustrator calls the wireframe outline view.
The lettering in your file is single pathed in Illustrator, attached is a screen capture of the file in Illustrator. (PC version) I don't use mac's.
The outline is not really broken up as shown in the jpg, that is the result of changing the resolution to get under the boards meager 50K size limit.
EDITED: 10 Nov 2006 by SPRINTER
From: vectorguy (PBDESIGN) [#10]
10 Nov 2006
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#1] 13 Nov 2006
Hi Roy,
Just send me the file and I'll fix it.
Vectorguy
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#11]
11 Nov 2006
To: sprinter [#9] 11 Nov 2006
Our "meager" file size limit is ample for most attachments. We've overlooked that suggested limit, when necessary, to get a higher resolution view of an object etc.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12]
11 Nov 2006
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#8] 13 Nov 2006
Roy,
In Illustrator, under the pulldown heading "View", artwork is the selection that shows a wireframe.
Under the same heading, Preview selection shows the full image.
From: sprinter [#13]
11 Nov 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#11] 11 Nov 2006
The 50k limit must be a Delphi carry over since EE and DSSI has the same limit. Most forums I visit have a 100k-250k limit, WOE is set to 500k.
I just find with my "maturing" eyes it is easier to look at higher resolution larger images B-)
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#14]
11 Nov 2006
To: sprinter [#13] 11 Nov 2006
Quite often, large file sizes are merely low resolution photos, which have been left in a digital camera's native size, making scrolling from here to the middle of next week, necessary for viewing, on a computer monitor.
From: sprinter [#15]
11 Nov 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12] 11 Nov 2006
David,
Interesting, on the PC version of Illustrator CS2 they call it the outline view.
Does the mac version show letters with inclusions as a single path or 2 seperated closed paths?
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16]
11 Nov 2006
To: sprinter [#15] 11 Nov 2006
In Illustrator CS2 for Mac, as with the PC version, "Outline" is the selection for a wireframe view.
In Illustrator 8 "artwork" is the selection for a wireframe view.
I'm attaching a screen shot from Illustrator CS2 for Mac, showing the line breaks are inherent in the artwork and not a result of our suggested file size limitation.
The file size is larger than 50K.
EDITED: 11 Nov 2006 by DGL
From: sprinter [#17]
11 Nov 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16] 11 Nov 2006
David,
That is not the line breaks I was refering to, the ones Roy and I was refering to was letters with inclusions as a single path. An example of an inclusion is the center of the letter O, with a single outline path it would be like a stencil cut with one closed path around the outside and inside of the letter. On the PC it is shown as 2 seperate paths, the outside and then the inside of the letter.
The line breaks I was refering to about the file size is more pronounced on the outline of the "g", the outline has many breaks in it. The higher resolution does not show the breaks, it just shows the inclusion break for the sincle path.
EDITED: 11 Nov 2006 by SPRINTER
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18]
11 Nov 2006
To: sprinter [#17] 11 Nov 2006
If so, I can post that, but I'll have to do it when I return from my "loose ends" tour of L.A.
There's no way I was going to jump into the Friday, rush hour traffic of a three-day weekend.
Today should be smooth sailing. :-)
From: sprinter [#19]
11 Nov 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18] 11 Nov 2006
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#20]
11 Nov 2006
To: sprinter [#9] 11 Nov 2006
Sprinter (and others), a couple of thoughts about including images. Not all JPEGs are created the same. Some algorythms are better than others. For example, using Photoshop's Save For Web can give noticeably smaller jpegs than their SaveAs jpeg. Even at the exact same compression/quality. I opened your jpeg in PS and in Save For Web it said it would save at 25K (yours was 40K).
But a far biigger savings is made with fonts and graphics by using GIF. Your 40k jpeg comes out of PS's Save For Web as a 2-color GIF at 7k, and looks as sharp or sharper. (remember GIF is a lossless compression, so other than color reduction it has no artifacts like jpeg). For anti-aliasing you can use 4-color or 8-color. For a photograph, of course, GIF is terrible and is much larger than a jpeg.
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