Full Version: EPS, MAC, CorelDRAW issue
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#6]
9 Nov 2006
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#4] 10 Nov 2006
Hmmmm..... the above was based purely on looking at the EPS file in Illustrator. Seeing it in Corel X3 gives different results than I would have expected.
Here's what I think is going on. Some letters have both a fill and an outline. Others have just a fill or just an outline, but not both.
When I open it in X3 the ones that had both (which are a single object in AI) are imported as 2 objects in X3. One for the filled part and one for the outline part.
The "I"s are compound paths in Illustrator with one compound path being fill only and one compound path being the outline only. When opened in X3 the outlined "I"s broke into 2 outlines. One for the dot and one for the main part. The filled versions of the "I"s came in as a single compound fill shape. So each "I" started as 2 objects in Illustrator and ended up as 3 objects in X3. At the same time the other letters were single objects and all had both a fill and outline in Illustrator and came into X3 as 2 objects each. One for the fill and one for the outline.
This was done using the File Open in X3 and selecting "curves" in the choice of opening as text or curves.
EDITED: 9 Nov 2006 by DAVERJ
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#7]
9 Nov 2006
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#4] 10 Nov 2006
OK, I just did this test in X3. Interesting....
I created a new drawing in X3 and placed a single letter in it. I set a fill and an outline.
I saved it as Adobe Illustrator format.
I closed the original and opened the saved file.
The drawing now has 2 objects. One for the fill and one for the outline.
Didn't try other file formats, but it may be the way X3 deals with importing/exporting objects with both a fill and an outline.
EDITED: 9 Nov 2006 by DAVERJ
From: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#8]
10 Nov 2006
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#7] 11 Nov 2006
I'm truly appreciative of your time on this. Your observations are very helpful.
But it wasn't just the "i," right? e.g., the "s" and "g" also had the filled object + the outline object. I like you, noticed the *3* parts of the "i" and thought that the outline was to "hold together" the parts of the letter. My X3 opens the file with a group of 33 objects for only 16 letters!
Not to press my luck, but did you notice in illustrator if the letters with inclusions were also single path? Or, does Illustrator even have a "wireframe" view? I've asked that standing behind Illustrator operators before and they didn't understand the question.
If not clear, look at the file in corel in wireframe and you'll see what I mean on the a, d, e, g. For years I've noticed that many graphics created on MACs exhibit this, but I never understood if it's certain fonts that certain MAC programs use or if it is due to the conversion to PC.
From: sprinter [#9]
10 Nov 2006
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#8] 13 Nov 2006
Roy,
I have had the same problem with mac AI files, have them save the file as PDF compatable and "NO" compression, this usually corrects the prooblem.
Adobe Illustrator calls the wireframe outline view.
The lettering in your file is single pathed in Illustrator, attached is a screen capture of the file in Illustrator. (PC version) I don't use mac's.
The outline is not really broken up as shown in the jpg, that is the result of changing the resolution to get under the boards meager 50K size limit.
EDITED: 10 Nov 2006 by SPRINTER
From: vectorguy (PBDESIGN) [#10]
10 Nov 2006
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#1] 13 Nov 2006
Hi Roy,
Just send me the file and I'll fix it.
Vectorguy
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#11]
11 Nov 2006
To: sprinter [#9] 11 Nov 2006
Our "meager" file size limit is ample for most attachments. We've overlooked that suggested limit, when necessary, to get a higher resolution view of an object etc.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12]
11 Nov 2006
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#8] 13 Nov 2006
Roy,
In Illustrator, under the pulldown heading "View", artwork is the selection that shows a wireframe.
Under the same heading, Preview selection shows the full image.
From: sprinter [#13]
11 Nov 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#11] 11 Nov 2006
The 50k limit must be a Delphi carry over since EE and DSSI has the same limit. Most forums I visit have a 100k-250k limit, WOE is set to 500k.
I just find with my "maturing" eyes it is easier to look at higher resolution larger images B-)
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#14]
11 Nov 2006
To: sprinter [#13] 11 Nov 2006
Quite often, large file sizes are merely low resolution photos, which have been left in a digital camera's native size, making scrolling from here to the middle of next week, necessary for viewing, on a computer monitor.
From: sprinter [#15]
11 Nov 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12] 11 Nov 2006
David,
Interesting, on the PC version of Illustrator CS2 they call it the outline view.
Does the mac version show letters with inclusions as a single path or 2 seperated closed paths?
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16]
11 Nov 2006
To: sprinter [#15] 11 Nov 2006
In Illustrator CS2 for Mac, as with the PC version, "Outline" is the selection for a wireframe view.
In Illustrator 8 "artwork" is the selection for a wireframe view.
I'm attaching a screen shot from Illustrator CS2 for Mac, showing the line breaks are inherent in the artwork and not a result of our suggested file size limitation.
The file size is larger than 50K.
EDITED: 11 Nov 2006 by DGL
From: sprinter [#17]
11 Nov 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16] 11 Nov 2006
David,
That is not the line breaks I was refering to, the ones Roy and I was refering to was letters with inclusions as a single path. An example of an inclusion is the center of the letter O, with a single outline path it would be like a stencil cut with one closed path around the outside and inside of the letter. On the PC it is shown as 2 seperate paths, the outside and then the inside of the letter.
The line breaks I was refering to about the file size is more pronounced on the outline of the "g", the outline has many breaks in it. The higher resolution does not show the breaks, it just shows the inclusion break for the sincle path.
EDITED: 11 Nov 2006 by SPRINTER
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18]
11 Nov 2006
To: sprinter [#17] 11 Nov 2006
If so, I can post that, but I'll have to do it when I return from my "loose ends" tour of L.A.
There's no way I was going to jump into the Friday, rush hour traffic of a three-day weekend.
Today should be smooth sailing. :-)
From: sprinter [#19]
11 Nov 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18] 11 Nov 2006
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#20]
11 Nov 2006
To: sprinter [#9] 11 Nov 2006
Sprinter (and others), a couple of thoughts about including images. Not all JPEGs are created the same. Some algorythms are better than others. For example, using Photoshop's Save For Web can give noticeably smaller jpegs than their SaveAs jpeg. Even at the exact same compression/quality. I opened your jpeg in PS and in Save For Web it said it would save at 25K (yours was 40K).
But a far biigger savings is made with fonts and graphics by using GIF. Your 40k jpeg comes out of PS's Save For Web as a 2-color GIF at 7k, and looks as sharp or sharper. (remember GIF is a lossless compression, so other than color reduction it has no artifacts like jpeg). For anti-aliasing you can use 4-color or 8-color. For a photograph, of course, GIF is terrible and is much larger than a jpeg.
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#21]
11 Nov 2006
To: Pedaler (ROYBREWER) [#8] 13 Nov 2006
Roy, a few things.
1 - The EPS you posted wasn't created in Illustrator. It was created in Freehand MX 11.0.2 on a Mac. This is shown by opening the EPS in a text editor.
2 - Even though the fonts have been converted to curves in the EPS and are not saved as fonts, the EPS does define the fonts used. PosterBodoniBT-Roman for the first line and CenturyGothic for the second line. When I create text in AI using those fonts, and convert to curves, they do not have those breaks in them making them single paths. The inclusions (cutouts) are seperate paths and are compounded with the outer outline. This is just a guess, but maybe the designer added those slices to join the inclusions with the outline to make it a single path. This then required them to have an outline as well as a fill in order for the outine to cover up those gaps where the letters were sliced.
3 - In AI (Adobe Illustrator) the 16 characters are shown as 21 objects. One object for each letter (and the period) and 2 objects for each of the five "I"s. Those expand into 33 objects in CD because:
--- In AI the five "I"s are 2 objects, one with a fill and one wth an outline. The outline one expands into two objects in CD, separating the dot from the body of the "I". The filled ones do not separate. So each "I" comes in as 2 objects and becomes 3. That's 5 of the new objects in CD.
--- In AI all other characters are shown as a single object with both a fill and an outline. When opened in CD most of them expand into 2 objects, with one for the fill and one for the outline. But for some odd reason the "D", "E", and "N" of the first line and the dot of the second line come into CD as single objects with both a fill and an outline. I can not see anything in AI that indicates why this is happening. So the "S" and "G" of the top line and the "A"s, "S", and "D"s of the second line each have a second object in CD. This adds the other 7 new objects bringing the total to 33.
Now, just to add to the confusion, I saved the file from AI in Illustrator 10 format and opened it in CD. Now I get 30 objects. All of the letters except the "I"s came in as single objects with both a fill and an outline. The "I"s in the lower line came in as 3 objects as before. But the two "I"s in the top line came in as 5 objects each. One for the fill and four objects for the outlines. The dot, the left side, the right side, and a curved piece on the top.
Very strange. I have no explanation for that.
All of the above is using Adobe Illustrator CS2 on PC and Corel Draw X3 on PC.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#22]
11 Nov 2006
To: sprinter [#19] 11 Nov 2006
When I select the letter, there are only nodes on the outside of the "O."
When I try to select the inner line of the "O" there's no difference.
Outside nodes only.
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#23]
11 Nov 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#22] 11 Nov 2006
Then when I select the object with the Selection tool (solid arrow) I see the bounding box and the inner nodes. When I select the outer ring with the Direct Selection tool (hollow arrow) I get the nodes on the outer ring. If I click on the inner ring I get the nodes for that. (see below)
Did I misunderstand what you were saying you did? Or is AI Mac different than on the PC?
BTW, in the Layers palette, after converting to outlines, I see one group, with one object in it which is a compound object. If I "release" the compound path I get two circles, one the size of the outer ring and one the size of the inner ring.
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#24]
11 Nov 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#22] 11 Nov 2006
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#25]
11 Nov 2006
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#23] 11 Nov 2006
Sorry for the apples to oranges.
The experiment I mentioned, was in Illustrator 8.
The same experiment, in CS2 works exactly as you displayed.