Full Version: to Dye sub or not to dye sub
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#8]
14 Dec 2006
To: jpkevin [#7] 14 Dec 2006
Good to know.
From: LipChip [#9]
14 Dec 2006
To: jpkevin [#7] 14 Dec 2006
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#10]
14 Dec 2006
To: LipChip [#9] 14 Dec 2006
David,
I know the 4800 comes that way. I had mine configured as 4 color ( just didn't know any different at the time). I have had no problems with it thus far.
What are the advantages of configuring as an 8 color system?
Thanks
From: LipChip [#11]
14 Dec 2006
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#10] 14 Dec 2006
If your working with the 8 color system (Epson 4000) , some say that it gets better colors when doing artwork murals on ceramics, etc.. Also, "from what I've heard", Epson dealers can not work on a machine after it gets configured for Dual CMYK. It must be re-configured back to the 8 color machine if your going to have an Epson dealer do repairs. This is from my research.
We would together with several other decorators that have their 4000's configured to run Dual CYMK, so that is why went that direction. It's said to be much faster in the Dual CYMK mode. Time will tell.
One of our contacts uses his 4000 strictly as the 8 color unit, and work not ever consider changing to the Dual CYMK.
It's kinda, to each his or her own preference.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#12]
14 Dec 2006
To: LipChip [#11] 14 Dec 2006
David,
Is the a difference in ink consumption? And once a system is configured for 4 color can it be reconfigured to 8 color? I am assuming from your post that the answer to this is yes.
From: LipChip [#13]
14 Dec 2006
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#12] 14 Dec 2006
"From my understanding" it can be re-configured back, and it can be changed from working with 110ml carts, or 220ml carts, or the refillable (best way to go if you have the money) or you can add this feature a cartridge at a time.
This seems to be one reason that the Epson 4000's are flying off of the shelves. Not sure when this will be available on the Epson 4800.
I "believe" that companies like Johnson Plastics are now configuring the Epson 4800 to run "somewhat like" the Dual CMYK mode, but have two different set of inks, where you could then do sublimation inks, and the Chromablast inks for t-shirt printing on the same machine.
Kevin Lumberg.... chime in here.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#14]
14 Dec 2006
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#12] 14 Dec 2006
Hi Chuck,
The advantage of dual cmyk is essentially double the speed. Two heads putting cmyk out with one pass instead of one with smaller amounts of 8 total colors.
The part that gets lost in this speed issue is can the substrate handle the speed....Meaning..... can the media take the faster deposit of ink with less drying time. With dye sub....you have to be careful not to oversaturate the transfer paper or you get pooling and cockeling. The way other larger format printers deal with this is with speed control, and the ability to reduce ink with certain combinations with the rip that runs the printers.
Consumption would just be twice as fast...not twice as much ;)
EDITED: 14 Dec 2006 by RALLYGUY1
From: jpkevin [#15]
14 Dec 2006
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#12] 14 Dec 2006
The dual CMYK setup is much faster and more cost effective per print than the 8 color setup. The eight color setup has a slightly larger color gamut that it can hit, but I have not seen a big issue with this. Overall, I like the color reproduction of the dual CMYK better than the 8 color 4000. Now on the other hand, I like the overall color production of the eight color 4800 the best of any of the printers. (slightly better than the Dual CMYK 4000) However, the 4800 is much slower than the 4000. In my opinion, the bottleneck of most sublimation businesses, is waiting for the printer to print the transfers, so, again in my opinion, the 4000 Dual CMYK is the best sublimation platform currently available.
As far as getting it worked on by a service person, I just spoke with an Epson Certified repair facility, here in town, and he said that having a 4000 converted to Dual CMYK would not prevent them from working with them. They would only work on them, whether they were 4 or 8 color, if they were no longer within the 1 year warranty. If it is still within the warranty, Epson will do a "whole unit replacement" of the machine. If you are a business address they will ship you a new printer next day, and if you are a residential address they will send it two day.
I have not had any problems with the ink being laid down too fast with the dual CMYK setup.
Hope this helps.
EDITED: 14 Dec 2006 by JPKEVIN
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16]
14 Dec 2006
To: jpkevin [#15] 14 Dec 2006
Kevin,
Does Johnson Plastics sell ArTainium ink or just Sublijet?
I'm asking, because I heard there's an issue with ArTainium ink and hi-release transfer paper, in that, it tends to blur or run on the paper.
Apparently the formula of the ink (ArT) has been changed.
EDITED: 14 Dec 2006 by DGL
From: jpkevin [#17]
14 Dec 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16] 14 Dec 2006
Hi David,
We do sell both Artainium and Sublijet inks.
When I used to have my business, I used Artainium inks with the Epson 3000. I was using the Texprint 95, and had no problems. After a while, I started having blurring issues when I printed yellow next to black. They would run into each other. I talked with the Beaver Paper people at a trade show, and was told that that was an issue, but they had the new Texprint XP, and had taken care of that issue. I used the XP paper and it worked great........for a while, and then I started to have the blurring issue again.
I did some testing using the Truepix, and our JP paper, and with the Texprint paper, and I found that there wasn't much difference in the images between them. We have discontinued the Texprint paper.
The accuplot paper is a thinner bond (21 lb) versus the 31 lb of the JP and Truepix. In my testing, I have gotten better color with the heavier bond paper, so that is what I prefer.
So to answer your question......I think it is a paper issue rather than an ink issue.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18]
14 Dec 2006
To: jpkevin [#17] 14 Dec 2006
I think it's an ink/paper compatibilty issue.
I prefer papers like Jetcol (still available?) and Textprint XP, for tile and fabric work and use ArTainium ink, although I must have the old formulation of ArTainium, because I did some tiles the other day, with Textprint XP and had no problems whatsoever.
Thank you for the informative response.
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#19]
14 Dec 2006
To: ALL
For anyone considering entering the world of sublimation, you might want to read the thread at DSSI regarding a new offering of Laser Sublimation being introduced by Colorstar.
I for one would not be buying inkjet today, unless I absolutely had to have larger format, without taking a look at what they are offering.
Doug
From: jpkevin [#20]
14 Dec 2006
To: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#19] 14 Dec 2006
Hi Doug,
I agree and disagree with your statement about Inkjet sublimation versus laser.
I agree that people should check out ALL available technologies before purchasing any equipment. They need to find the technologies that best fit what they are looking for. There is not currently ANY technology that does everything. You may very well need a mixture of technoligies.
Laser (both sublimation, and non-sublimation) has its pros and cons, and inkjet certainly has its pros and cons. Neither is perfect.
I certainly believe that inkjet sublimation is a very viable and profitable business. If you have the proper equipment and support.
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#21]
14 Dec 2006
To: jpkevin [#20] 14 Dec 2006
Kevin...you're right. It is like engraving...some stuff works best with laser, some with rotary, and some in the sandbox...but...I doubt that most engravers started with all 3 at one time.
My thought is, as troublesome as inkjet is, especially if not used regularly, laser is a good direction to look into...much less trouble for the startup.
I switched to OEM laser a couple of years ago and other than large format, I've not found anything that I could not do and some that I could not do with inkjet.
I was just trying to alert folks here that might be looking that there was emerging technology being introduced over on DSSI...
Doug
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#22]
14 Dec 2006
To: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#19] 15 Dec 2006
Doug,
Good idea to point that out. As a sublimation neophyte, I started with inkjet. I did that because I did not like the "look" of OEM but I have recently ordered some paper from Cactus and will be playing around with it.
It was either in a post that I read or a comment someone made that in essence states it is good to have both processes.
Like you mentioned in another post one needs all processes.
Anyway, thanks for pointing that out.
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