Full Version: Holiday Marketing Synopsis
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#7]
30 Dec 2006
To: BrianC (INKSQUIRTER) [#6] 30 Dec 2006
EDITED: 30 Dec 2006 by DATAKES
From: Carl (CSEWELL) [#8]
30 Dec 2006
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#4] 30 Dec 2006
Having turned down a few (as in 5 or 6) customer-owned-product engraving requests over the past few weeks because I could not do them with my laser, what would you recommend as an absolute minimum (price and hardware) for getting started in rotary/drag engraving? I realize this might not be an easy question to answer, but you never know until you ask.
Is used rotary engraving equipment an attractive alternative?
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#9]
30 Dec 2006
To: Carl (CSEWELL) [#8] 30 Dec 2006
Carl,
Used engraving equipment is an excellent alternative because many of these machines are built like tanks. Mine is 6 years old and I feel like I haven't even broken it in.
As far as price, you get what you pay for. I bought a used IS400 volume a month or so ago for about $5,200 and turned around and sold it on eBay for around $7,000.
There is an New Hermes IS400 on Ebay right now for $6,000, but you have to pick it up. I have been corresponding with the owner of that machine. He said he would be willing to ship in January. I recon you could get that machine for under $6,000 plus shipping.
Older, slower New Hermes models can be had for $2,500 with the EP module. You'll want to make sure you get the Gravostyle98 software.
There are also some nice Xenetech machines that come up on the market. Others may be able to share their thoughts on this brand, which I have heard great things about.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#10]
30 Dec 2006
To: Carl (CSEWELL) [#8] 30 Dec 2006
Carl,
I've bought used (rotary/drag) equipment, although, never sight-unseen.
I've always test-driven the equipment.
The argument against used equipment, is the lack of a warranty and factory training.
In my experience,rotary/drag equipment has been very reliable and with a decent owners manual, the learning curve isn't too steep.
Regardless of if you decide to buy new or used, my advice would be to find a machine with a (deep) workholding vise (minimum) and cylindrical engraving capability (ideal).
That type of machine is usally called a "Gift" machine by most manufacturers.
Flatbed machines can be fitted with various jigs, to make them more versatile, but depending on the brand, versatility can be limited.
To summarize:
If you buy a rotary machine with limited capabilities, you'll still be turning work down.
EDITED: 30 Dec 2006 by DGL
From: Carl (CSEWELL) [#11]
30 Dec 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#10] 30 Dec 2006
I'm always charting and recharting the future direction of my business and had really put rotary engraving at the bottom of the list. Mainly because there are many others that are currently offering it and there are several alternative technologies that no one is offering in this area. Maybe that should tell me something, but it doesn't?!?!
I've earned business away from the rotary engravers by exploiting the advantages of the laser, which can't easily be matched by rotary engraving. I can certainly understand the benefits of bringing in new business and new customers with rotary/drag engraving.
I have to wonder, though, why the requests that I turned away did not go to the rotary engravers in the first place. And, when I referred the requests to the rotary engravers, all of them didn't know the rotary engravers existed. Heck, there's one rotary engraver that it took me over a year to find and I drive by their business almost every day!! And this is a very small city.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12]
30 Dec 2006
To: Carl (CSEWELL) [#11] 30 Dec 2006
Carl,
Have you asked the customers how they found you?
Even though they weren't aware of the other engravers in your area, several factors come into play, as to why some get work and others don't:
1) Bedside manner - Some just aren't "people persons." I'm amazed this group gets any work from anyone at all.
2) Limited skills - Having the equipment doesn't guarantee ultimate expertise.
3) Fear factor - Relates to #2 - Lack of experience leads to working on "Slam Dunks" only. If they can cut a new plate, from sheet stock and go again, they're in.
That leaves a lot of uncovered territory and opportunity knocks for those willing to take a calculated risk.
EDITED: 30 Dec 2006 by DGL
From: Carl (CSEWELL) [#13]
30 Dec 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12] 30 Dec 2006
All the time! Most (60 to 75%) find me through word-of-mouth (surprise, surprise) from past customers and also from my wife's customers (co-located business).
The second majority find me through my website. I'm continually amazed at the number of people that use Google's "near" feature. Typically, they use "engraving near Guntersville, AL". A very powerful tool.
I'm also located on a side-street between the two one-way streets (a US highway) that runs through town (which sits on a peninsula), so I get a few (maybe 5%) that drive by.
Some of the comments I've received about the 'competitors' are: lack of attention to detail; can't do graphics; bad experience. I haven't found an easy way to bring this subject up so I'm limited to what people offer.
You don't grow or make more money by doing the same ol' same ol'. What doesn't put you out of business, makes you stronger??!?
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#14]
30 Dec 2006
To: Carl (CSEWELL) [#13] 30 Dec 2006
Sounds like you have many of the ingredients in the recipe for success. :-)
What would be an example of the type of work you had to turn down recently?
Odd-shaped metal objects?
From: Carl (CSEWELL) [#15]
30 Dec 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#14] 30 Dec 2006
Sounds like you have many of the ingredients in the recipe for success.
Oh, no.... I can't cook! ;^)
Almost all were brass: buckles, door knockers, briefcase clasps, medals (may not have been brass but they didn't want to experiment). Other than the brief case clasp, none of them would appear to be very difficult to fixture.
One was a Zippo lighter that I wasn't sure if it was plated or not. The customer made an EXCELLENT barter deal with me, so I gave it a go with Cermark. Successfully, I might add. My main concern was that the slow, high heat would damage the thin metal. I kept the lighter insert in and only marked the lower half. The customer was pleased and I received a very expensive gift for my wife.
One was a leather (dark black) pool cue case which might not have been easily rotary engraved, or please correct me if I'm wrong. I was forewarned about this person by the person that referred her to me, so I guess I wasn't overly anxious to help her.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16]
30 Dec 2006
To: Carl (CSEWELL) [#15] 30 Dec 2006
Carl,
The leather pool cue case isn't a good candidate for engraving, but a plate, either laser engraved or rotary/drag engraved would work.
You could have tried laser engraving (if it fit in your machine) then used a plate as a "cover up" in case it didn't work. :-)
Congratulations on the barter. I'm a fan of that system, as long as everyone is happy with the trade.
EDITED: 30 Dec 2006 by DGL
From: Carl (CSEWELL) [#17]
30 Dec 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16] 30 Dec 2006
I could also have done laser foil, but someone once told me that "stickers" aren't very attractive. Although I've done laser foil and also LaserLights on several vinyl albums (photo not record) much to the customer's delight. And, yes, the marking ended up being more than album. Go figure.
How would you have attached the plate (plastic?) to the leather? The case wasn't at all rigid. I'd be afraid that they'd catch a corner and rip a plate off without much effort at all.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18]
30 Dec 2006
To: Carl (CSEWELL) [#17] 30 Dec 2006
There are some very aggressive double-faced tapes, so, as long as the corners of the plates are radiused, there's very little chance of being snagged.
If the case was very flexible, Laserlites or FlexiBrass should be able to roll with the punch.
EDITED: 30 Dec 2006 by DGL
From: Carl (CSEWELL) [#19]
30 Dec 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18] 30 Dec 2006
LaserLights on textured surfaces looks real bad, in my opinion. FlexiBrass probably would have worked. They're now supplying it with 3M adhesive. That probably would have been the best option. I've got an old textured, vinyl briefcase (portfolio book, actually) that I might try that on for display purposes.
It used to bother me when customers would say, "You're the expert. Do whatever you think is best." because not everyone has the same tastes. I'm learning that giving people too many choices is worse than "Doing whatever you think is best".