Full Version: Finding user's forum name
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#11]
9 Jan 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#10] 9 Jan 2007
David,
Thank you for the clarification. It was a correct assumptin on my part ( for a change) {insert laugh here}.
I think the use of proper names lends itself to a sense of community and family, which is one of the main reasons I am a member on EE. I am continually amazed at the friendships I have made with people I have never met. ALL OVER THE GLOBE.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12]
9 Jan 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#11] 9 Jan 2007
I haven't seen where the use of real names has slowed such sites down. In fact, it brings another level of credibility, not that we ever lacked. :-)
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#13]
9 Jan 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12] 9 Jan 2007
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#14]
11 Jan 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#12] 11 Jan 2007
Name verification could be tied in with the credit card used for payment....pretty simple way to make sure the person is verifiable.....
(unless the card is stolen ;)
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#15]
11 Jan 2007
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#14] 11 Jan 2007
We'll be using Paypal as our subscription method and won't have physical access to credit card information, which I see as a plus.
No claims of mishandling or storing that information in an unsecure manner.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#16]
11 Jan 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#15] 11 Jan 2007
I understand....
The negative aspect that you have without that information then is how to verify actual name/location etc....
If somene doesn't want you to have their personal information, How will you prevent them from coming up with an alias? It's pretty cost effective to get your own URL so you have your own custom e-mail address if your annonimity is important to you.
Although Pay pal is convienient...It's not going to do the job as easily, and will have plenty of holes (at least if true verification is your goal).
Another alternative would be a tax id number....This is commonly used to determined if you are a legitamate business around the country. You could require this as well as a legitimate business address that could be verified. The problem with this is that it will take plenty of effort to manualy verify any information that you pick as appropriate.
But it would be a nice way to verify that people joining are legitimate businesses if that is important to you for any reason. I know this idea has come up in past discussions.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#17]
11 Jan 2007
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#16] 11 Jan 2007
I'll have to find the site which explained their method of verification. One had to do with snail mail.
Handling verification manually may be tedious, but then again, with some people predicting a mass exodus, upon our launch of a subscription site, there may be very little work to do. :-)
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#18]
11 Jan 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#17] 11 Jan 2007
Regarding a mass exodus............I'm not much for predictions.....Some will leave based on principle alone. Some will stay to see what will happen, and some will stay because they love the ideas you have, and the direction that you want to take the site. At this point the percentages of people that fit those categories are unknown.
;)
My post is just food for thought as you make your decisions on requiring personal authentication, and move forward.
EDITED: 11 Jan 2007 by RALLYGUY1
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#19]
11 Jan 2007
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#18] 11 Jan 2007
Brian,
Anonymity is more difficult for one to maintain than you would think. I'm not sure why the need for some to be such a mystery.
There are some people who hold anonymity close to their heart, but the internet makes it so easy to determine who they are, where they live, what their business name is, what their hobbies are, etc., etc., etc. Of course, that information being public doesn't serve much purpose, other than help to forge more authentic relationships. Some people want that, while others could care less. I personally prefer it.
EDITED: 11 Jan 2007 by DATAKES
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#20]
11 Jan 2007
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#19] 11 Jan 2007
Anonominity is absolutely not that difficult to keep on the internet. (Unless you supeona ip addresses due to a crime being committed, and that may not even be enough anymore) if people take a minute amount of care....they can be very annonomous.
If the goal is to know who you are dealing with....someone has to be honest with themselves when setting up the authentication process. To think that just asking for a real name and e-mail address will be enough, is foolishness. It won't work. E-mail authenticates nothing....just that you set up an e-mail address...Not necessarily who you really are.
A simple link between a credit card holders name and the name that the person uses on the forum would be the easiest and most secure way to address the problem because of the security that is already built into the credit card system. It automaticly requires a billing address that corresponds to a real cardholders name. Most any other way would be far less than useful if someone truly wanted to keep their identity annonomous.
I have always used my real name and business name in my posts, along with my 800 number. I have no interest in being anyone other than who I really am. But you can't just hide your head in the sand and say that it's next to impossible to hide your identity on the internet. That way of thinking is just foolishness. It's really rather easy.
There are IP generators that create a fake IP identity for anywhere you post on a forum, or play games. The only reason that I know this is that I participate in an online gaming community, and there are often people that will use spoof IP addresses to avoid being banned from a game server when caught cheating or hacking. These types of products are very simple to obtain on the web. They can be used to keep yourself from being located, or banned on any forum, or gameserver giving you the freedom to reek havok in games and on forums. It's really quite frusterating to the gaming community, and I suppose that it would be for many forums as well. I have never been associated with a forum that had a problem like this, but I am well aware of what people with these types of motivations can accomplish. I have banned players that are using hacks or cheats from our game server just to have them come back with an entirely different IP address and cause more trouble within minutes.
Going to the trouble of finding this software and utilizing it would probably take less than 10 minutes. After that...you can be anyone you want to be and pretty much do anything you want by changing your ip address and coming back to the place that you were removed from. This also hides your location which normaly could be determined by IP address.
It is a real issue if honest authentication is truly desired.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#21]
11 Jan 2007
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#20] 11 Jan 2007
All points are true, but...
If a person gets banned from a pay forum, they will have to re-register and re-pay to get back on. That will slow them down quite a bit unless they are really on a campaign to do harm. Nothing is perfectly safe.
Now snail mail to deliver the initial password might work. A lot of extra work and some time lost for the new member.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#22]
11 Jan 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#21] 11 Jan 2007
As I said....I think the only real way to be sure of who someone really is, would be to have a public name derived from the credit card holder's name.
What's to say that I couldn't log in as Bill Jones, give you my real home address, then I am Bill Jones to everyone on the forum....When I am really Brian Genrich..... "Sublimation Metal Sales Mogul" Shill for Rallye Productions Inc. ;)
Unfortunately the solution is never as simple as the problem...............
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#23]
11 Jan 2007
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#22] 11 Jan 2007
I think most people will comply with our request to provide their actual names.
We already have a good number of people, including yourself, who have always been known, by their actual names, to the forum members.
Using Sawmill Creek as an example, as a site which requires real names as user names, the honor system seems to be working fairly well.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#24]
11 Jan 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#23] 11 Jan 2007
I understand David....
No problem for me either way, but I was under the impression that authentication was the original goal.
If the goal was to reach true authentication, Using anything less than credit card info to derive public names would be difficult to impliment, if not impossible.
If the honor system is what works best....then that's fine. It does not guarantee that anyone is who they say that they though, which seems to be a topic that several have shown interest in. Unfortunately sometimes the costs of things like real authentication have to be weighed against the risks of having someone continue on being anonymous (Like you, I think that they are pretty insignificant).
While I understand why people like to know who they are talking to, I doubt that it is really that important in the scheme of things.
I have never had a problem spotting a shill on any forum.....It's usually pretty easy. ;)
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#25]
11 Jan 2007
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#20] 11 Jan 2007
That is the position I wish everyone would take of their own volition.
I don't disagree with what you said. My comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek, indirectly referring to an individual who seems to take great pride in remaining anonymous.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#26]
11 Jan 2007
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#25] 11 Jan 2007
Nope....
"I ams what I ams".....as Popeye once proudly said.....
No point in pretending for me. :)
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#27]
11 Jan 2007
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#24] 11 Jan 2007
Brian,
The good point you make is, after reading thousands of posts, it's fairly easy to spot somebody's writing style, no matter who they claim to be.
We're not going to the ends of the earth in order to root out people trying to skirt our system. If that were the case, the credit card verification (as you said) would be the best method.
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#28]
11 Jan 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#27] 11 Jan 2007
David,
I would suggest that we require it, and if someone is found in violation of that requirement, give them the permanent boot.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#29]
11 Jan 2007
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#28] 11 Jan 2007
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#30]
11 Jan 2007
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#28] 11 Jan 2007
I am in total agreement there.
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