Full Version: Average Laser Tube Life
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#1]
17 Jan 2007
To: ALL
Hi Everyone,
I am curious what average tube life has been for people with their lasers. I am being told that 3-5 years is to be expected (by an Epilog dealer).
I know others that only expect 1-2 years of life after using several different brands of lasers....
This dealer suggested that life expectancy was more of a time issue than use issue. Explaining that tubes just eventually went bad over time weather used or not.
I want to know what reality is. Please tell me your type of equipment, and how long your first and additional tubes lasted (if you've gone through more than two).
EDITED: 17 Jan 2007 by DGL
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#2]
17 Jan 2007
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#1] 17 Jan 2007
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#3]
17 Jan 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#2] 17 Jan 2007
EDITED: 17 Jan 2007 by RALLYGUY1
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#4]
17 Jan 2007
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#3] 17 Jan 2007
From: laserman (MIKEMAC) [#5]
17 Jan 2007
To: ALL
Regarding laser tube life all brands of laser tubes have a shelf life and typically the range that we have seen from the data we have collected is three to five years.
This is gas life most of the failures have nothing to do with the gas but instead the electronics, or internal optics are more of the cause of failures.
Usage can also dictate the life span as well as wattage higher wattage tubes heat up much more than your average 25-30 watt tubes would.
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#6]
17 Jan 2007
To: laserman (MIKEMAC) [#5] 17 Jan 2007
From: logojohn [#7]
17 Jan 2007
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#1] 17 Jan 2007
No problems with the laser tube but the xaxis motor and bearings need replaced every year.
The Xenetech is still working after a whole 6 months.
From: laserman (MIKEMAC) [#8]
17 Jan 2007
To: logojohn [#7] 17 Jan 2007
I don't want to panic you but I wanted to let you and everyone with an older system that uses the synrad or coherent laser tubes.
If the manufacturer date on the tube is 10 years or older synrad will not repair these tubes any longer.
Coherent stopped repairing any 50 watt and will only repair some 100 watt tubes. There last statement to us was you will have to replace the 50 watt tubes with new ones and to even consider if the 100 watt tube was repairable would cost $11,000 minimum.
EDITED: 17 Jan 2007 by MIKEMAC
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#9]
17 Jan 2007
To: laserman (MIKEMAC) [#8] 17 Jan 2007
What do they charge for a new one?
From: logojohn [#10]
17 Jan 2007
To: laserman (MIKEMAC) [#8] 18 Jan 2007
With the drawbacks of the older design and lack of driver updates, I doubt it would be worth fixing if it costs very much.
A company our size should have at 3-4 lasers but because of our absentee owner we only got a second one last year - after a year and several people working on him.
Now if something happened to the old one, another nice new one would be a necessity.
Any suggestions on how to make a laser tube fail? ;-)
From: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#11]
17 Jan 2007
To: logojohn [#10] 17 Jan 2007
Hmmmm....
The old Midas Muffler commercial comes to mind immediately. You know, the one with the big mechanic holding a 16-pound sledgehammer. "We'll make it fit........"
8-O
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#12]
17 Jan 2007
To: ALL
I currently have 6 lasers and have been thru about 10-12 machines in my lasering "lifespan" , mostly using lower power (25+ watt) coherent deos and synrad tubes. We have NEVER got more than 18 months out of ANY of these tubes without having issues with them , the latest batch of Deos tubes which were used in our explorers used to fail regulairily and I think we went thru 10+ tubes in 2.5 yrs over 3 machines.
I wont buy a machine with a deos tube these days. We have had 3 spirits using Synrad tubes since march last yr ,and touch wood , they have been reliable so far ( 9 months or so)
I do not think tube issues are just time based , I think they are usage based.
We have also done everything in our power to try to extend tube life , for example weekly cleaning of heatsinks and fans , adding extra fans , air conditioning the environment the laser is in , extremely rigid power conditioning to the lasers , uprating the tube power supplies and so forth , still no luck in getting years of usage out of any tube. I have also polled users of other brands of lasers in south Africa (where I live) and everyone else has had more or less the same issues with their sources , to the extent that a local repair facility has been set up.
Mostly the tubes never fail in their entirety , its normally a RF board that blows. Parts to repair these are pennies and Synrad has sent us instructions on how to do so , the problem is tuning the RF boards after repair , which requires some specific bench equipment which is pretty pricey.
IMHO , the most important "warrantee" on your laser is on the tube , the longer the better in this case.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#13]
17 Jan 2007
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#12] 17 Jan 2007
Nice to hear from you Rodney......Thanks for the feedback.
I wonder why the difference in experince. It could be a perfect example of heavier use being a culprit in their demise.
I will try to do my best to weigh all the data, but will most likely be conservative with my personal estimate (as in whatever the warantee is) before I expect replacement costs to appear. Are there any warantee's on replacement tubes, or has your experience been luck of the draw on their life expectancy as well?
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#14]
17 Jan 2007
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#13] 18 Jan 2007
We have been pretty lucky in that the machines we bought have had 2 and 3 yr warrantees on tubes , so in all , the repair costs have been minimal , it costs us round $1000 to repair a tube and we get a 6 month warrantee on it , we have only paid for 2 tubes so far.
Evidently there have been some QC problems with the set of DEOS tubes that kept failing (some never made 3 months) and the new tubes supplied (I have no idea if they were reconned or brand new) retained the original warrantee. Im pretty sure the level of useage has a lot to do with it , we sometimes can run 8 hrs continuous a day with our stuff.
As I say , I recon belts , bearings , rails , motors are mickey mouse cost wise compared to either a tube or motherboard , so would rather get the cover on those 2 items than the rest.
The biggest cost of all in terms of a tube failure is the loss of business and profits. Once or twice we had to wait like a week or 2 for a new tube and had we not had multiple machines , this would have been real costly.
So apart from warrantees , the ability of your supplier to deliver replacements chop-chop is also very important.
Based on my experiences , I would budget for a new tube full replacement cost over at the most , 3 yrs.
As far as I am concerned , the small raster/vector lasers are still pretty "flaky" machines.
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#15]
17 Jan 2007
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#12] 18 Jan 2007
Hi Rodney,
It makes sense to me that you'd be money ahead to use a laser brand that has a 3-year warranty on their tube?
EDITED: 17 Jan 2007 by DATAKES
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#16]
18 Jan 2007
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#15] 18 Jan 2007
I actually have sort of come to the conclusion its a better way to trade your laser in every 2/3 years for a new one as you generally get more for your money in terms of performance/$ and get the latest stuff as well as getting a warrantee , much like cars.
I know you might not get great trade in values , but at the end of it all , the best way to finance these machines is lease or HP , we have found upgrading has not substantially increased monthly payments yet have often given us a 1.8x increase in speed and productivity due to machine improvements.
Part of our strategy is to cut cycle times while maintaining quality
Often the jobs we run are many multiples , so our lasers works at max speed a lot of the time and often at 100% power or close to it so I would never finance any of these machines for longer than 36 months as I consider that to be the effective lifespan of a hard working laser before it loses too much quality and parts wear.
I would extend that to 4-5 yrs for a occasional useage light duty type setup , for example a gift shop or marking type setup.
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#17]
18 Jan 2007
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#16] 18 Jan 2007
Rodney,
That is the exact approach I take with my laser. I finance the machine on a 5-year amortization schedule. In three years I have the principal paid down below the market value of the machine. At that time I can use the equity in the old machine as a down payment on the new machine, therefore keeping my payment close to the same.
It's a great way to keep up with the current technology and stay away from the major expense of replacement tubes, etc.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#18]
18 Jan 2007
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#17] 18 Jan 2007