Full Version: Newbie Needs Laser Engraver Purchasing Advice
From: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#1]
29 Jan 2007
To: ALL
I am a complete newbie. Would like to ad Laser Engraving to my sign business. I believe I've narrowed it down to an Epilog Laser, Either the Mini 18 or the Mini 24. I have no idea where my market will be, but it looks like mostly plaques, name tags and badges. But I am willing to do just about anything my customers would want.
Anything over $10,000.00 would be pushing the limits, but I don't want to purchase something I wpild outgrow in a very short time. I would appreciate very much any and all suggestions about what to purchase. How much wattage (could I get by O.K. with a 35W machine?) What size table? What prive range to expect? And if not Epilog, what other brands? Also, what about used?
Thank you all, I have been reading your posts since last Friday and have learned a lot so far.
Don
EDITED: 29 Jan 2007 by DGL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#2]
29 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#1] 29 Jan 2007
Don,
Have you had requests for laser engraving? Just curious as to why you're looking for a laser machine, with no specific direction in mind.
EDITED: 29 Jan 2007 by DGL
From: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#3]
29 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#1] 29 Jan 2007
Although this is the same starting point we had, please know that it's very dangerous. At the very least, I'd find out if anyone in your area (no profile info, so I don't know where you are) offers engraving services. We ended up doing more awards (plaques, medals) and industrial engraving than anything else.
There's not much I can say about that....I don't personally know of a reputable laser manufacturer that has a model under $10k. That's not to say that no one has them, but I haven't seen them.
There are many threads on this forum that deal with selecting a brand. Just out of curiosity....why did you choose Epilog?
Cody
From: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#4]
29 Jan 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#2] 29 Jan 2007
David,
Thank you for the reply. To answer your question, No, I haven't had any requests for laser engraving. The reason i've decided on a laser engraver is because it appears to me that they are much more versatile than a rotary engraver, and with no specific direction in mind nad no experience, I figured I would go with an engraver that would cover the most bases.
Don
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#5]
29 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#4] 29 Jan 2007
I have New Hermes IS400's, (among st other engravers), and a laser.
The rotary engravers are far more versatile than the laser. Some things can only be done by laser, and some only by rotary. But the end result is that you can do so much more with a rotary that it is the best way to go, in my opinion.
From: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#6]
29 Jan 2007
To: Cody (BOBTNAILER) [#3] 29 Jan 2007
Hi Cody,
There are three other busineses doing engraving in my area. They are all approx. 30 miles from me in two Towns three times the size of my Town. Here we have a population around 20,000 and growing quickly.
Epilog is not set in stone, so far it is my Engraver of choice because I have read several positive posts about their quality and support. I would be happy for any suggestions. Also, could you recommend a table size and what wattage could I get by with where I wouldn't be sorry after a very short time.
From several posts I've read over the past couple of weeks, it is beginning to look like this may be quite a risky venture. Do you feel that an engraving business is more or less risky than any other type of business?
Thank you,
Don
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#7]
29 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#4] 29 Jan 2007
Being a natural-born contrarian, I would see more possible niches in rotary/drag equipment, simply because lasers are becoming more prevalent and commonplace.
Don't forget that there are reputable sources for used laser equipment, with www.usedlasers.com being one.
$10K may buy more machine than you think.
From: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#8]
29 Jan 2007
To: ALL
Just wanted to thank everyone so far that has answered my post. As for a Rotary Engraver, There is a gunsmith across the street from me that purchased a New Hermes Rotary Engraver a couple yeas ago and has never used it. He has offered to let me use it all I want in exchange for engraving some small plates for some of the guns he builds.
It is my understanding that Laser Engravers are taking over, and are the future of the Industry. Since I have never used either Rotary or Laser Engravers, I can only go by what I have been reading over the past two to three weeks. If this is not the case, please don't hesitate to educate me. All info would be greatly appreciated.
Could someone please respond and tell me what things I could do with a Rotary Engraver, and what I could do with a Laser Engraver.
This is a great Forum. I sincerely appreciate all your comments and guidance.
Don
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#9]
29 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#8] 29 Jan 2007
The choice between a rotary/drag system and a laser isn't either or.
They're both capable of performing similar tasks, while there are some areas that don't cross over.
Why not take the guy with the New Hermes machine up on his offer, to get a feel for a rotary machine. That won't cost $10K to explore.
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#10]
29 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#4] 29 Jan 2007
I would suggest spending a few days reading the posts here (not just in the laser section, but in other sections too, since lasers are laced through a lot of this forum. You'll also see a lot of threads talking about both laser and rotary and what one is better for vs the other. They both have their places.
I'd also suggest reading through the laser and CNC section of Sawmill Creek (link is in the "Links of Interest" dropbox in the upper right of this page). A lot of posts there coming from a different perspective on lasers (mostly woodworkers and signmakers), but also a lot of good information about lasers in general and the problems people run into with them.
A used laser can save you money, but you also inherit any problems that machine has, and your chances of needing a new laser tube are a bit higher. Without having a warrantee, a rebuilt laser tube (just the tube) can set you back anywhere from $800-$3k, depending on brand and wattage.
From: PenTrophy (PENINSULATROPHY) [#11]
29 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#1] 29 Jan 2007
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#12]
29 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#11] 29 Jan 2007
I'm a laser guy but the opportunity your neighbor has presented may be the perfect answer. Why not start out that way and see what it brings.
If I could justify it I would also have one of the more versatile rotary machines in addition to my laser.
From: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#13]
29 Jan 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#12] 29 Jan 2007
Thanks Mike & all that have responded so far. I went over and spoke with my Gunsmith neighbor this afternoon to get some more info and he told me the security dongle was broke and that he was ordering a new one. I asked him which model New Hermes the machine was and he couldn't remember. He showed me a parts list he had, and a G98 Security Dongle was circled. I asked him if this is what he ordered and he said yes. Does anyone know which New Hermes Rotary Engraver uses the G98 Security Dongle?
I asked my neighbor how many parts he expected me to engrave for him per month in exchange for the use of the engraver and he said probably no more than 40. These are small tags to be attached to guns. I'm wondering what would be the average cost to charge for these if I were to own my own engraver. Any ideas?
I've been reading posts about Mechanical Engravers and I'm still somewhat confused. It looks like laser engraving is simpler and more versatile. I am not opposed to starting off with a Rotary Engraver, and it looks like they are a little less expensive than lasers, but I still don't really understand what they cannot do that a laser can.
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#14]
29 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#13] 29 Jan 2007
The price for the small tags will vary by content but probably less than $2.50.
Much depends on the type of rotary engraver you compare but some of them have nearly unlimited capability in terms of the size and shape of objects which can be engraved. They do a fine job of marking metal which you cannot do with a laser unless the metal has a lacquer or anodized surface. A chemical called Cermark can be applied to some metals permitting the laser to make a black mark on the metal.
Rotary machines are slower than a laser on most comparable jobs. They are not good for marking wood and have some limitations graphically with acrylics.
The laser will cut many materials, the rotary will cut some plastics.
I think all of us could probably write a book on what can or can't be done with these machines but you're probably better off to visit mfrs websites or call them. I think all have 800 numbers to the sales dept.
Whoever mentioned looking at used equipment offered sound advice as well.
The real secret to success in this business is marketing.
EDITED: 29 Jan 2007 by MIKEN
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#15]
29 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#13] 29 Jan 2007
The G98 probably stands for Gravostyle98 which is the software. It can run almost all of their machines.
The model of the machine should be on the front.
Was the dongle red or yellow?
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16]
29 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#13] 29 Jan 2007
A laser can capture fine detail in engraved wood, engrave leather and engrave graphics (logos) without having to digitize the artwork.
They can also engrave (filled) true type typefaces, faster than a rotary machine.
As to how much to charge for the gunsmith's tags, I would gauge that price, more by the time expended, than the cost of materials or the amount of engraving.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#17]
29 Jan 2007
To: ALL
From: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#18]
29 Jan 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#14] 29 Jan 2007
Mike,
Thanks for the great info. I am very interested in using an engraver for wood signs and for photos in acrylic. I joined ARA today and will be atending the ARA Trade Show In Las Vegas Next month. Your reply to my questions has been of great value to me. I will accept my neighbors offer of his Rotary Engraver and look at both at the tradeshow.
Thanks again for your help,
Don
From: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#19]
29 Jan 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#15] 29 Jan 2007
Thanks For The Reply Harvey Only,
The machine is at his house. He said he will bring it down to the shop later this week. I didn't look at the Dongle. He pointed towards a desk across the room that was piled with papers but I didn't go over to it.
I will be attending the Trade Show in Vegas where I will be able to see both rotary and lasers in action.
Thank you for your help,
Don
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#20]
29 Jan 2007
To: ALL
You wont look back after adding a laser to a signage business , you already have a market to tap. Forget engraving geegaws and small stuff at first, use it to offer your existing signage clients the most amazing and creative signage. Get something with a decent bed size and forget your 10k budget, it's gonna cost you double to do it right.
Its a lot more versatile than a rotary for signage , but if you got access to a rotary as well as a laser - you really on your way.
Key to making this work would be some sort of experience in perspex fabrication. IE a decent bender and some glueing experience. You can make amazing point of sale stuff with a laser.
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