Full Version: Newbie Needs Laser Engraver Purchasing Advice
From: Mike (MIKEN) [#14]
29 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#13] 29 Jan 2007
The price for the small tags will vary by content but probably less than $2.50.
Much depends on the type of rotary engraver you compare but some of them have nearly unlimited capability in terms of the size and shape of objects which can be engraved. They do a fine job of marking metal which you cannot do with a laser unless the metal has a lacquer or anodized surface. A chemical called Cermark can be applied to some metals permitting the laser to make a black mark on the metal.
Rotary machines are slower than a laser on most comparable jobs. They are not good for marking wood and have some limitations graphically with acrylics.
The laser will cut many materials, the rotary will cut some plastics.
I think all of us could probably write a book on what can or can't be done with these machines but you're probably better off to visit mfrs websites or call them. I think all have 800 numbers to the sales dept.
Whoever mentioned looking at used equipment offered sound advice as well.
The real secret to success in this business is marketing.
EDITED: 29 Jan 2007 by MIKEN
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#15]
29 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#13] 29 Jan 2007
The G98 probably stands for Gravostyle98 which is the software. It can run almost all of their machines.
The model of the machine should be on the front.
Was the dongle red or yellow?
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16]
29 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#13] 29 Jan 2007
A laser can capture fine detail in engraved wood, engrave leather and engrave graphics (logos) without having to digitize the artwork.
They can also engrave (filled) true type typefaces, faster than a rotary machine.
As to how much to charge for the gunsmith's tags, I would gauge that price, more by the time expended, than the cost of materials or the amount of engraving.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#17]
29 Jan 2007
To: ALL
From: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#18]
29 Jan 2007
To: Mike (MIKEN) [#14] 29 Jan 2007
Mike,
Thanks for the great info. I am very interested in using an engraver for wood signs and for photos in acrylic. I joined ARA today and will be atending the ARA Trade Show In Las Vegas Next month. Your reply to my questions has been of great value to me. I will accept my neighbors offer of his Rotary Engraver and look at both at the tradeshow.
Thanks again for your help,
Don
From: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#19]
29 Jan 2007
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#15] 29 Jan 2007
Thanks For The Reply Harvey Only,
The machine is at his house. He said he will bring it down to the shop later this week. I didn't look at the Dongle. He pointed towards a desk across the room that was piled with papers but I didn't go over to it.
I will be attending the Trade Show in Vegas where I will be able to see both rotary and lasers in action.
Thank you for your help,
Don
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#20]
29 Jan 2007
To: ALL
You wont look back after adding a laser to a signage business , you already have a market to tap. Forget engraving geegaws and small stuff at first, use it to offer your existing signage clients the most amazing and creative signage. Get something with a decent bed size and forget your 10k budget, it's gonna cost you double to do it right.
Its a lot more versatile than a rotary for signage , but if you got access to a rotary as well as a laser - you really on your way.
Key to making this work would be some sort of experience in perspex fabrication. IE a decent bender and some glueing experience. You can make amazing point of sale stuff with a laser.
From: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#21]
29 Jan 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#16] 29 Jan 2007
David,
Yourself and others have been a really big help and I appreciate it. I'm really leaning towards a Laser Engraver, but will accept my neighbors offer of using his Rotary engraver in exchange for doing his tags for him.
I will be attending the Trade Show in Vegas and will learn alot. Thanks for the info on the Rotary Engraving Class. I missed that one.
Thanks Again,
Don
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#22]
29 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#21] 29 Jan 2007
You can't go wrong by attending the Las Vegas show. All the "majors" are there and you'll be able to see live demos galore.
When you say "High Desert" is that the California high desert?
You may also want to consider joining us at the Beach Party, otherwise known as an evening with Joe Hayes. :-)
From: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#23]
29 Jan 2007
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#20] 29 Jan 2007
Hi Rodney Gold,
My original thought was to look into a large Laser engraver for signage. But I had no idea of the costs. A Friend of mine in the next town purchased a $75,000.00 Flatbed Wide-Format Printer the first of lst year and has captured 90% of the market in the entire area. No-one could compete with him and make a profit. Finally, at the end of summer, I sold my main Wide-Format Printer and and am now having him do my printing for me as wide-format printing for me has pretty much dried-up.
Since we have only three engraving busineses within a hundred mile area (and two of them are working from their homes) I decided that even though I couldn't afford an engraver with a large bed size, that perhaps I could fill a niche market and add engraving to my sign business. I have a retail storefront but am in a very small town of about 20,000. However, the three engraving busineses i mentioned earlier are over 25 miles away from me.
After your post and several others I have read, It looks as though a Laser Engraver would be the way to go for me. I am willing to do what my customers want, but it sure would be fun to do some signage, some wood signs, and some laser photos in acrylic.
I am gonna accept my neighbors offer to use his Rotary Engraver nad also look into buying an Epilog Mini Laser Engraver. I really wish I had the bucks, experience, and/or business to go for a large laser, but I'm afraid that would be too risky with me knowing nothing yet. But that is my dream.....
Thank you for your input. It is appreciated.
Don
From: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#24]
29 Jan 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#22] 29 Jan 2007
Thanks for the invite to the Beach Party David. What day is it? I will be there on Thursday and Friday.
High Desert Is short for my sign business, High Desert Sign Co. I am in North/Central Arizona just outside of Prescott, Az.
Don
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#25]
29 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#24] 29 Jan 2007
I have a friend who just moved to Prescott Valley from Ventura, CA.
Nice area! I was there last August.
Here's the thread with the beach Party info.
http://www.engravingetc.org/forum/index.php?webtag=EE&msg=5261.1
Hope you can make it!
From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#26]
29 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#21] 29 Jan 2007
A few thoughts:
You know the classic engraved brass plates on trophy bases, on picture frames in a gallery, on the butt of a gun, which typically have letters cut into the surface? Those are done with a rotary. A laser can not cut metal or cut down into the surface of metal (at least not without spending huge money on an industrial laser).
You know the classic monograms and text engraved on the back of a pocket watch, on a flask, a silver tray, etc... which are usually sharp shiny lines cut into the metal? A laser can not do that. Those are done with a mechanical engraver.
A laser can only mark onto the surface of metals using a chemical that turns black and bonds to the surface of the metal when hit by the laser. It's a different look.
On the other hand, a laser can engrave photographs into woods, acrylics, and metals (using that chemical). It can cut shapes out of thin woods and acrylics fairly easily, with amazing detail. It can cut fabric, paper, rubber stamp material (which stinks), and some other soft materials. It can bleach the color of anodized aluminum without removing the anodize.
A laser can not cut or engrave PVC/vinyl because the fumes will damage the laser. Certain plastics will have melted edges or charred edges. Cutting woods leaves some char on the edges.
In other words, a laser and a rotary are different, and give different types of results with different materials. There are very few materials where the results look similar.
Do you currently have a CNC machine, like a shopbot for doing signs? Many signmakers say that a CNC is far more profitable in a sign business than an engraver. If you already have a CNC, a laser can compliment that in a sign business. If you want to shift directions and do engraving, then a laser and a rotary both have their places, and can compliment each other.
From: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#27]
29 Jan 2007
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#26] 29 Jan 2007
Thanks Dave,
Your explanation was very helpful. I do not have a CNC Router. I seriously considered buying a 48x96 Shopbot when the Wide Format printing market dropped out here, but bottom line..... I just don't have any interest in the work involved in dimentional wood signs (sanding, sealing, masking, painting) And I honestly don't feel there is any market here for them due to the cost.
What I really would like to do is build up a small engraving shop and continue doing the profitable things in the sign business (Banners, Magnets, Vinyl lettering).
Anywhere else, I'm 100% sure that CNC Routing would be very profitable. but I just don't see it happenning here.
Thanks again for your help,
Don
From: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#28]
29 Jan 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#25] 29 Jan 2007
I lived in Southern Ca. my whole life. I moved here from Downey 18 years ago and never looked back. Went to visit a longtime friend in La Mirada last November and couldn't believe the changes. Some things were like I never left, but in some ways I felt like a complete stranger in a strange land.
The gunsmith I spoke of earlier moved here from Santa Barbara four years ago. In some ways I feel like I never left Calif. 'cause four out of five of people I meet are from somewhere in Californmia. I have to admit, I really miss the ocean. Growing up there I took it for granted. I believe that I wouldn't hesitate coming back if I could afford a home near the beach.
One of the engraving busineses I mentioned earlier is in Prescott Valley. One is in Prescott, (a jewelry store that does engraving), and the third one is next door to Prescott Valley in a town called Dewey.
Thanks for the Beach Party thread. I'll try to make it.
Don
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#29]
29 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#28] 30 Jan 2007
The first thing my friend did, when he moved to Prescott Valley, was to get his AZ license plates. With so many Californians transplanting, the "locals" aren't too eager to see them come into the area.
Out of state housing prices are attractive, but as a California native and a fan of the beaches (live 4 mi. from the ocean) I plan to hang on.
Regardless if you make it to the Beach Party or not, we should make a point of meeting up at the show. I'll be there Thurs- Sat morning.
From: Goodvol (JIMGOOD) [#30]
29 Jan 2007
To: ALL
Dave said what I was going to say! I wouldn't look at the rotary engraver as an old way to engrave and the laser as the new way to engrave. Like Dave said, they complement each other. It really depends on the materials you want to engrave.
I'm a Newbie and like most of us, reading this forum is the single best way to succeed in this business. The information is incredible. There was a thread that was started by someone that asked if you were starting from scratch which type of engraver (rotary versus laser) would you buy? I first thought the answer was obvious. I assumed the laser would win by 90%. It surprised me that it was pretty close to 50/50.
I'm guessing most people have one or the other and there are times that you get frustrated because you don't have the "right" one for a specific job.
You may be in a sweet position of getting to use a rotary machine and purchasing a laser! You WILL have the ability to do both.
With your laser, I wouldn't go less that a 12x24" bed and a 35 watt machine. I bought the Epilog mini24 - 35watt and its been a great machine. There are times I wish it had more power or a larger bed but a majority of the time it does what I need it to do.
Enjoy the ride!
Jim
From: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#31]
30 Jan 2007
To: Goodvol (JIMGOOD) [#30] 30 Jan 2007
Thanks Jim,
That was some great information. You directly answered a couple of questions I have been trying to find the answer to. What size bed, and is 35W adequate? From what I've learned, It looks like having both types off machines would be the way to go. I am in a very small town and the other engravers in nearbvy towns all use mechanical or rotary engravers. This is what most everyone here is familar with, but with the use of my neighbors New Hermes Rotary Engraver, and the Laser I will buy during or after the ARA Show in Vegas, I should be set to start learning the business and begin my new carreer as an engraver.
Newbie or not, you have really helped to clear up some pertinent questions I had. you have been a great help.
Thank you again,
Don
From: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#32]
30 Jan 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#29] 30 Jan 2007
David,
I'm gonna try to make it to the "Beach Party" If I don't make it, I'll be at the show Thurs. & Fri. It would be great to meet either at the beach party or somewhere at the show.
See you there,
Don
From: Goodvol (JIMGOOD) [#33]
30 Jan 2007
To: Don (HIGHDESERT) [#31] 30 Jan 2007
Glad I could help. I'm still learning and I'm gaining so much from being on this forum. I truly feel like I'm not going through this all alone. I have a lot of people watching my back. When I feel I can contribute, I owe it to everyone to do just that.
I mentioned the 12x24" bed becasue that is a popular size for material. If you buy acrylic, that is a popular size, and a lot of people sell the 12x24" baltic birch although the sheets start out 5'x5' and are cut down.
As mentioned before, marketing is the key!
Jim
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