Full Version: Sawgrass discontinues some Epson 3000 carts
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1]
2 Feb 2007
To: ALL
Effective immediately, Sawgrass Technologies has discontinued selling extended cartridge formats, representing 3 inks, for the Epson 3000 printer:
1) Classic Extended. (Sublijet)
2) XL Extended. (Sublijet XL)
3) IQ Jumbo (Sublijet IQ)
Extended cartridges have a fill capacity of 220 ml of ink, as compared to the standard cartridge capacity of 110 ml.
EDITED: 2 Feb 2007 by DGL
From: sawdr73 [#2]
2 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#1] 2 Feb 2007
From my experience with Sawgrass, I would feel good if they discontinued selling anything.
Not intended to start any discussion about or against Sawgrass. Just my personal feeling.
Mickey
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3]
2 Feb 2007
To: sawdr73 [#2] 3 Feb 2007
I suspect you're not alone in that sentiment.
They point to slow sales of the extended cartridges as the reason for their discontinuance.
Could it be that, if the cartridges were less expensive, they'd sell more of the extended variety?
From: UncleSteve [#4]
2 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#3] 2 Feb 2007
Remember, a 3000 is not considered a large format for bulk ink purchases according to them.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#5]
2 Feb 2007
To: UncleSteve [#4] 2 Feb 2007
I'm sure that has something to do with it. The way to go, are the clear refillable cartridges, which never have to be removed from the printer.
Just fill them up as needed.
From: UncleSteve [#6]
2 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#5] 2 Feb 2007
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#7]
2 Feb 2007
To: UncleSteve [#6] 2 Feb 2007
If you do, you'll be joining me. I just inhereted one from a customer that gave up on sublimation and now has me printing their transfers.
Wish me luck in re-establishing an ink flow. It's been sitting for months. >.<
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#8]
2 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#7] 2 Feb 2007
David,
Who knows, that may have been my 3000 from years ago that I abandoned after struggling with the early stages of Sawgrass mud, or I mean inks. I sold it to a gentleman in your area.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#9]
2 Feb 2007
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#8] 3 Feb 2007
Between the early formulations of Sawgrass ink (Sublijet, known for clogging and color shifts) and now, their legal stranglehold on the (desktop printer) sublimation ink market
(except for Texas Original Graphics and we don't know what the outcome of that legal battle will be, until late this year)
Sawgrass has not only been responsible for a large number of people becoming discouraged and leaving the process, but the artificially-pumped-up ink prices have kept many people from becoming involved.
From: UncleSteve [#10]
2 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#7] 3 Feb 2007
Don't know if I even want to put sublimation inks in it or just go with good pigment inks and go from there. :/
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#11]
3 Feb 2007
To: UncleSteve [#10] 3 Feb 2007
I asked how long the printer has been sitting. I didn't like the answer.
"We haven't used the printer since you started printing our transfers."
That was months ago. >.<
Carts are still in the machine, which may help.
EDITED: 3 Feb 2007 by DGL
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#12]
3 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#11] 3 Feb 2007
My thought on it would be that since Epson has released the 4800 perhaps a lot of people have simply upgraded their equipment so orders for the 3000 cartridges may be down. But I don't follow it all the closely, so it is just a guess as to a possible reason.
When I first got interested in sublimation about two years ago, the folks at Alpha Supply spent considerable time talking to me, and related a story about a fellow that had allowed his printer to sit unused for 6 or 8 months. He called them and asked if he had ruined it by doing that. Alpha supply suggested he just shake the cartridges real well and it should work.
He did and it did. Urban Legend? Who knows...but it sounded good.
I know there has been a lot of contention surrounding Sawgrass, but so far ( a year) I have had absolutely no problems with them, the ink or my 4800. Perhaps I'm just lucky.
Luck at least to be part of a GREAT forum.
From: logojohn [#13]
3 Feb 2007
To: ALL
I just want something easy and reliable and predictable to get the job done without needing a rocket science degree in how things work or color correction. I don't want to build one, I just want to get the job done quickly and move on.
The sawgrass ink has made sublimation a lot easier and predictable for me. The problem of matching colors is virtually removed using their free "power driver". I can use customer eps or even jpgs and not need to tweak anything for color correction. They even have a pulldown menu to select substrate and color such as silver, gold or white metal. Messing with finding and setting up this or that icc profile is too much work IMHO.
We don't use sublimation for everything. A customer comes in with a need and we will use whatever process will work best. If they want a color logo or photo on badges or plaques the best fit is usually sublimation. We just make sure the charge is enough to even cover the single $75 dollar cartridges for the c88 without trying to refill them. That charge is still much less and quicker that the presublimation option - silkscreening or pad printing especially on each piece name changes or small quantities. For gradients and photos the sublimation is actually a lot better. We still send out larger runs for pad printing or screening, especially t-shirs and caps.
I am not going to decide if the ink is too much. I just quote a cost to the customer and let them decide. I rarely get feedback that the sublimation is too much. They are usually glad we can even do color.
If somebody is wanting $10 color plaques, they have come to the wrong place anyway. If the ink was free I still couldn't do it time-wise. There is never a lack of things to sell that can make money. We did a big run of 1x3 sublimation plates. The ink cost $100 but the billing was $2000. I don't begrudge sawgrass for getting their cut.
---------------
The OEM laser toner is supposedly cheaper because of using OEM toner.
But I have tried all 3 brands of paper with mixed results. I can get the settings just right but you can never be sure one piece won't have the ink come off with the transfer, completely stick to it or not stick at all. For big runs I can eventually tweak it to make it work but you need to plan on a few or many wasted practice pieces.
I am skeptical of the new color processes coming out to. Anybody can get a display piece but how many attempts did it take. Is the procedure foolproof and repeatable or is each one going to require a lot of luck.
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#14]
3 Feb 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#12] 3 Feb 2007
Chuck,
My reference to Sawgrass "mud" was to their early forumlation (SubliJet). They never offered to make it right when I inquired, hence I went a different way.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#15]
3 Feb 2007
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#12] 3 Feb 2007
Chuck,
Can you tell that those of us who have been involved with sublimation long enough to have used and seen (high quality) inexpensive ink disappear from the landscape, remain a little bitter? :-)
You bring up a good point, in that, the Epson 3000 (although the original workhorse) has been supplanted by newer technology.
That, more than the price of ink, is probably the primary reason for the discontinuance of the extended 3000 cartridges.
I agree with LJ, that despite the price of ink, the ink jet sublimation process is still the best tool for some jobs and that's why I'm still a fan of the process.
EDITED: 3 Feb 2007 by DGL
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#16]
3 Feb 2007
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#15] 3 Feb 2007
With my limited experience, I have to agree, but I think the key is to get the jobs that you can price high enough or have a high enough perceived value that you can justify the cost of the inks.
With that said, it seems that the per piece cost of ink and paper is still minimal....again, in my admittedly "limited" experience.
Spoken by someone still trying to launch. :-(
From: JHayes55 [#17]
3 Feb 2007
To: ALL
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#18]
3 Feb 2007
To: ALL
I knew Paul somewhat, (Artaniun), and Bob Smith, (Color Factory), very well. The most non-clogging ink was The Color Factory.
Where my objection to the Sawgrass pricing was that the ink cost $15 per liter, and was sold for $1000 per liter in bulk to customers. And the customers of Artanium and Color Factory were threatened with legal actions by Sawgrass.